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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The First US State to Adopt Basic Income (Read 1690 times)
SkyChief
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Re: The First US State to Adopt Basic Income
Reply #60 - Apr 8th, 2018 at 8:08pm
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The libertarian agenda is far too flawed with nonsense to ever be accepted by enough people to make meaningful change.

What are these so-called "flaws" you speak of?  What's wrong with our core principles of individual liberty, self-ownership, and a limited government?
  
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Don_G
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Re: The First US State to Adopt Basic Income
Reply #61 - Apr 8th, 2018 at 11:31pm
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 8:08pm:
What are these so-called "flaws" you speak of?  What's wrong with our core principles of individual liberty, self-ownership, and a limited government?


All political parties will lay claim to those, even the neo-nazis. That doesn't mean they're the property of a few batshit crazy libertarians.

One big flaw is your silly notion that you need to get rid of income taxation. And you should be very familiar with the other valid criticisms of the LP agenda.

To touch on a few examples of the lunacy:
http://reason.com/blog/2010/05/21/salon-libertarianism-is-juveni


  
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Jeff
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Re: The First US State to Adopt Basic Income
Reply #62 - Apr 9th, 2018 at 8:29am
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Dagny wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 5:04pm:
One of the many examples that UBI is bullshit, but people are like "But it might work this time"

Yep, their ideology blinds them to facts.
They can look at evidence discovered by LBJ's "progressive" minions that shows that a practical application of UBI has bad effects, but still advocate for one because the very thought of it sounds "just", and they build their reality out of nice sounding notions based on their ideology.

Just like true believers in any religion, they will when necessary, be totally anti-scientific.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: The First US State to Adopt Basic Income
Reply #63 - Apr 9th, 2018 at 10:33am
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All political parties will lay claim to those, even the neo-nazis. That doesn't mean they're the property of a few batshit crazy libertarians.

One big flaw is your silly notion that you need to get rid of income taxation. And you should be very familiar with the other valid criticisms of the LP agenda.


None of this claptrap is true, and you know it.  You're very emotional right now, so I'm going to let it pass.

For now. 

Quote:

That article you linked is an expose of a poorly-written article from another source (Salon)

You obviously didn't even bother to read it. It's showing how insane the critics of Libertarians can be.

It's the perfect non sequitur.  [insert sad trombone sound]
  
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Don_G
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Re: The First US State to Adopt Basic Income
Reply #64 - Apr 9th, 2018 at 2:02pm
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 10:33am:
None of this claptrap is true, and you know it.  You're very emotional right now, so I'm going to let it pass.

For now. 

That article you linked is an expose of a poorly-written article from another source (Salon)

You obviously didn't even bother to read it. It's showing how insane the critics of Libertarians can be.

It's the perfect non sequitur.  [insert sad trombone sound]


5% of the people will protest the opinions of that Reason article, if even that. And that would be assuming that there is no reform movement afoot within the libertarian party that's trying to make the ideology acceptable to a reasonably large amount of voters. So I think 5% is generous.

What does that leave for people who would support and understand the truths contained in the article.

I can provide many more like it that are saying the same thing. But what's the point?
  
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SkyChief
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Re: The First US State to Adopt Basic Income
Reply #65 - Apr 9th, 2018 at 2:25pm
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I can provide many more like it that are saying the same thing. But what's the point?

I don't doubt that. But they are all written by liberty-hating moonbats.  So none of them make any sense, really.

"Libertarianism is juvenile," "stupid," "silly," "bratty"

How vapid!    *yawn*
  
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Don_G
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Re: The First US State to Adopt Basic Income
Reply #66 - Apr 9th, 2018 at 2:46pm
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 2:25pm:
I don't doubt that. But they are all written by liberty-hating moonbats.  So none of them make any sense, really.

"Libertarianism is juvenile," "stupid," "silly," "bratty"

How vapid!    *yawn*


These are the adjectives that have been extracted from the talking points of the libertarian agenda.

Stupid
Ignorant
Bratty
Selfish.

The libertarian notion of rights for themselves at the expense of the rights of the other 95%+ of the people is the prime conspicuous example.

(their defense will have something to do with 'poitive' and 'negative'.

The LP is lacking any real direction but could find a direction by turning left and supporting Freedom and Liberty for ALL  the people.

The ALL may out of necessity need to exclude the 1% who currently have stolen the people's liberty.

Ask me sometime what the turn to the left would mean. I don't mind repeating the facts on the world's leading countries.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: The First US State to Adopt Basic Income
Reply #67 - Apr 9th, 2018 at 3:00pm
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Ask me sometime what the turn to the left would mean. I don't mind repeating the facts on the world's leading countries.

I know exactly what the turn to the left would mean. That's why I'm a libertarian!   Smiley

“The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.”

- Ayn Rand

“Your government sees you as a milk cow. If things get tough for them, they will treat you like a beef cow.” - Doug Casey
  
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Don_G
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Re: The First US State to Adopt Basic Income
Reply #68 - Apr 9th, 2018 at 3:10pm
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 3:00pm:
I know exactly what the turn to the left would mean. That's why I'm a libertarian!   Smiley

“The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.”

- Ayn Rand

“Your government sees you as a milk cow. If things get tough for them, they will treat you like a beef cow.” - Doug Casey


Those that claim individual rights at the expense of the rest of the world's people are ignorant, selfish fools.
~the rest of the world which views Ayn Rand as a extremist has been.

Libertarianism can't work for an entire country. ~SkyChief
  
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The Opposition
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Re: The First US State to Adopt Basic Income
Reply #69 - Apr 9th, 2018 at 3:44pm
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From the article.

It's not just that he screwed up and said something stupid because he's so committed to a purist fancy. No, it's worse than that. Libertarianism itself is what's stupid here, not just Paul. We should stop tip-toeing around this belief system like its adherents are the noble last remnants of a dying breed, still clinging to their ancient, proud ways.

You know what else is a purist fancy? The idea that murder is wrong. I keep telling you this, and you keep basically ignoring me because you can't refute it.

Morality is a system of rules that help us evaluate right and wrong. If there are no rules, and it's just based on evaluating every situation as it comes along, morality is useless and people will get away with murder because they're good at justifying it and they "had a good reason".

Rights are the most fundamental of those rules. If we can disregard them in one situation because we have a good reason, then we can disregard them in others because we have a good reason.

Libertarianism is a purist fancy the way law, justice, and morality are purist fancies.

Think about the New Deal. Although libertarian ingrates will never admit it, without the reforms of the 1930s, there might not be private property left for them to complain about the government infringing on. Not many capitalist democracies could survive 25 percent unemployment, and it doesn't just happen by good luck.

Then it should have collapsed. The answer to capitalism causing collapses is to let them collapse, not to add better butter to the bitter butter to make the bitter butter better.

You just ruin the better butter if that's true. You don't add cream to shit to make the shit better; you discard the shit and drink the cream. That's common sense. If capitalism really sucked that bad, it probably would have been discarded.

Because it wasn't discarded, you now can't say which part of a mixed system is really making the ship go. Libertarians will attribute all our problems to the bits of socialism we have, and leftists will attribute all our problems to the capitalism we have.

Everyone agrees that we have one working engine and one imaginary magic unicorn here; they just can't agree which is which. Discussions of which is which are all pointless until people and politicians are willing to test their hypotheses scientifically, among the same populations, and with control groups.

It's like having a ship's hamster and claiming it, and not the engine, makes the ship go. Unless you're willing to test it without the hamster, and without the engine, you'll never prove anything. You'll just argue in pointless, futile circles until you drop dead.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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