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The Opposition
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Jun 18th, 2017 at 10:11pm
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This forum is roughly 80% attacking other posters and roughly 20% discussing issues and/or the philosophy behind them.

This is what you get with free speech. The better tactics don't rise to the top - they sink to the bottom.

The free market will bury the good guy used car salesman just like the marketplace of ideas buries everyone who refuses to spew bile in kind when one or two people start doing it. Scamming wins over honesty just like nastiness, insults, and vitriol win over sound arguments. The insults are easy. It's simply a more efficient way to make your money, so to speak, just as the scammer used car salesman has a lower overhead and higher profit margins. The honest guy will be pushed out, just as sound arguments are pushed out here.

I still believe in the free market, because Hayek said that we ought to advocate it on morality rather than on result. So I do. Wholeheartedly. I'm just saying, this is what you get. The vitriol is not added to the discussion; it replaces discussion.

In a competitive environment, people will win however they can, just like a predator takes the easy meal. This means spewing insults because it's easier. I am not suggesting that this forum crack down; I am merely pointing out that regulation is absolutely necessary for good behaviour because bad behaviour wins every time on the free market. You see that in the case of murder, rape, and violence but you do not see that in any other cases where bad behaviour will easily win out over good.
  

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SkyChief
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Re: This Forum...
Reply #1 - Jun 18th, 2017 at 11:30pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 10:11pm:
This forum is roughly 80% attacking other posters and roughly 20% discussing issues and/or the philosophy behind them.


This dynamic occurred only recently.  Newcomers have thrown a wrench in the machine.  It's been such a long time since Jeff asked us to consider suicide.

In an odd way, I miss those days.   Grin
  
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Jeff
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Reply #2 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 7:50am
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 11:30pm:
This dynamic occurred only recently.  Newcomers have thrown a wrench in the machine.  It's been such a long time since Jeff asked us to consider suicide.

In an odd way, I miss those days.   Grin

Reading through the lizard's ill-informed and confused slander of free markets and liberty above, I'd say it's time for him to consider suicide... But anyway, what do you think is my point in suggesting that it buy it's Mom a gun, which I have done several times of late...?
  
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kaz
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Reply #3 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 10:13am
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 11:30pm:
This dynamic occurred only recently.  Newcomers have thrown a wrench in the machine.  It's been such a long time since Jeff asked us to consider suicide.

In an odd way, I miss those days.   Grin


You welcomed me with a barrage of insults, FWIW.

As for me, I insult Don and Jeff because they continually insult me.  Though I don't respond to Jeff's posts much anymore because most of them are just inane and I don't know what I'm even supposed to say.  As for anyone else, I don't believe I very often insult anyone because they don't generally insult me.

I know in "newer posters" you weren't necessarily picking out me, just stating my perspective as a newer poster.

Also, The Oppression was blasting the crap out of me when I joined.  However, he stated in a post that he'll drop the vitriol.  I was dubious at first, but he did.  We've been having much better conversations since
  

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SkyChief
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Reply #4 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 11:41am
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Jeff wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 7:50am:
Reading through the lizard's ill-informed and confused slander of free markets and liberty above, I'd say it's time for him to consider suicide... But anyway, what do you think is my point in suggesting that it buy it's Mom a gun, which I have done several times of late...?

Honestly I never gave it much thought.  I just assumed you were being facetious.  The Lizard has a unique perspective on Libertarian ideals.  I wouldn't call that slander. Slander implies intent to disparage. It over-thinks things because it is genius.

Liberty is a funny thing because it means different things to different people.  Some people on this forum claim to be champions of liberty, and honestly believe that taxes are a good thing and something worth keeping.

A famous Libertarian publicly proclaimed that the government should be granted the power to force the baker to bake the gay-wedding cake!   Shocked
  
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kaz
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Reply #5 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 11:49am
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 11:41am:
Liberty is a funny thing because it means different things to different people.  Some people on this forum claim to be champions of liberty, and honestly believe that taxes are a good thing and something worth keeping


There aren't very many actual libertarians on the board, it's an odd thing to me.  Jeff and I are the only regular posters who are consistently libertarian that I've seen.  Jeff's responses are frequently bizarre, but what he believes is consistently libertarian.

There are some posters with some libertarian views.  You and the Oppressed among them.  Then there are those with no libertarian views I've ever seen, such as Dissident Right and Don

SkyChief wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 11:41am:
A famous Libertarian publicly proclaimed that the government should be granted the power to force the baker to bake the gay-wedding cake!   Angry


The Libertarian Party can think whatever it wants, but no one who believes government can force one citizen to work for another is libertarian.  No one has to accept every tenant of an ideology, but that one is directly contradictory to the most basic libertarian values
  

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Don_G
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Re: This Forum...
Reply #6 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 11:56am
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 11:41am:
Liberty is a funny thing because it means different things to different people.  Some people on this forum claim to be champions of liberty, and honestly believe that taxes are a good thing and something worth keeping.

  


That has nothing to do with your proclaimed motive for starting this thread. It's taking aim at me for what I've been doing on this board when in fact I've contributed to this board growing since I've been commenting here.

There doesn't seem to be any interest shown by the administrator to clean up the bad behaviour so It will likely continue. This is most likely the reason why it hasn't become a popular board for people who are truly interested in political discussion.
  
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Don_G
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Re: This Forum...
Reply #7 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 11:59am
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kaz wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 11:49am:
There aren't very many actual libertarians on the board, it's an odd thing to me.  Jeff and I are the only regular posters who are consistently libertarian that I've seen.  Jeff's responses are frequently bizarre, but what he believes is consistently libertarian.

There are some posters with some libertarian views.  You and the Oppressed among them.  Then there are those with no libertarian views I've ever seen, such as Dissident Right and Don


The Libertarian Party can think whatever it wants, but no one who believes government can force one citizen to work for another is libertarian.  No one has to accept every tenant of an ideology, but that one is directly contradictory to the most basic libertarian values


my views are libertarian within the realm of possibilities. I simply point out and reject the impossible.

But that has nothing to do with the OP and the reason why Chief felt it necessary to start this thread.
  
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kaz
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Reply #8 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 12:03pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 11:41am:
Some people on this forum claim to be champions of liberty, and honestly believe that taxes are a good thing and something worth keeping


No one on the board that I've seen opposes taxes. This is the stupid libertarian = anarchist shit.  It's tired since no regular post here is an anarchist.  Anarchists are nothing like small government libertarians.  Anarchists are ideologues who ignore reality for their philosophy.  Small government libertarians are the complete reverse, we focus on the real world and human nature.

To say "taxes" is like to say baseball bats.  Are baseball bats good or bad?  Yes?  no?  Actually, it depends on the use.  For baseball?  Yeah, cool.  For beating up people?  No, not so much.   The bat is a tool, it doesn't have a brain.  Taxes used to provide Constitutionally authorized functions of the Federal government are fine.  Mostly that's defense.  Note what we are doing with the military is largely not defense and Constitutional.  I did not say "military" is Constitutional, I said "defense" is Constitution.

All the wealth redistribution the Federal government is doing and regulating beyond their authority (In(tra) State business, drugs, etc.) are bad taxes.  "Taxes" are not the issue.  It's what they are being collected on and used for that is the issue
  

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kaz
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Re: This Forum...
Reply #9 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 12:07pm
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Don_G wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 11:59am:
my views are libertarian within the realm of possibilities. I simply point out and reject the impossible.

But that has nothing to do with the OP and the reason why Chief felt it necessary to start this thread.


You're a large government authoritarian.  Don't be ridiculous, there is nothing libertarian about you.  Why do you even say stupid shit like that?
  

Man does not control his own fate. The women in his life do that for him - Groucho Marx

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way - Mark Twain
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