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Don_G
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Reply #20 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 2:43pm
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kaz wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 12:03pm:
No one on the board that I've seen opposes taxes. This is the stupid libertarian = anarchist shit.  It's tired since no regular post here is an anarchist.  Anarchists are nothing like small government libertarians.  Anarchists are ideologues who ignore reality for their philosophy.  Small government libertarians are the complete reverse, we focus on the real world and human nature.

To say "taxes" is like to say baseball bats.  Are baseball bats good or bad?  Yes?  no?  Actually, it depends on the use.  For baseball?  Yeah, cool.  For beating up people?  No, not so much.   The bat is a tool, it doesn't have a brain.  Taxes used to provide Constitutionally authorized functions of the Federal government are fine.  Mostly that's defense.  Note what we are doing with the military is largely not defense and Constitutional.  I did not say "military" is Constitutional, I said "defense" is Constitution.

All the wealth redistribution the Federal government is doing and regulating beyond their authority (In(tra) State business, drugs, etc.) are bad taxes.  "Taxes" are not the issue.  It's what they are being collected on and used for that is the issue


Your head is too full and you're going to injure your brain if you don't take a break. What an ignorant teenage mutt you have shown yourself to be!
  
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kaz
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Reply #21 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 2:56pm
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Don_G wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 2:43pm:
Your head is too full and you're going to injure your brain if you don't take a break. What an ignorant teenage mutt you have shown yourself to be!


It's funny how you always react to information that contradicts what Democrats taught you to think with anger
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Don_G
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Reply #22 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 3:34pm
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kaz wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 2:56pm:
It's funny how you always react to information that contradicts what Democrats taught you to think with anger


How many times do I have to tell you that I consider the Dems as bad as the R's, you useless fu-king piece of shit nazi fu-king wannabe?
  
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kaz
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Reply #23 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 3:42pm
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Don_G wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 3:34pm:
How many times do I have to tell you that I consider the Dems as bad as the R's, you useless fu-king piece of shit nazi fu-king wannabe?


It's irrelevant because you can't specify anything you disagree with them on.  And you actually say they aren't as bad as Republicans after you say they are ...
  

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Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Reply #24 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 4:59pm
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Don_G wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 3:34pm:
How many times do I have to tell you that I consider the Dems as bad as the R's, you useless fu-king piece of shit nazi fu-king wannabe?
Could you explain to me what you mean by "nazi". Thanks. You could easily include it in the description of "socially responsible socialism". Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
  
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The Opposition
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Reply #25 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 9:34pm
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kaz wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 10:13am:
As for me, I insult Don and Jeff because they continually insult me.


I've seen this to be true because I pay attention, and this is exactly my point.

Look, the free market is great in a lot of cases. Probably most. But unfortunately there's a reason debate is usually a regulated environment: Insults win over sound arguments. When people are doing it to you, if you don't adopt their tactics, you just lose.

Don_G wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 11:56am:
That has nothing to do with your proclaimed motive for starting this thread. It's taking aim at me for what I've been doing on this board when in fact I've contributed to this board growing since I've been commenting here.


No it's not. This was going on to a lesser degree before you arrived. I could say I'm not blaming anyone but the person who started it but even that's not true. I'm not blaming anyone. Why should I blame someone for using the best tactics that win the most, the easiest? It'd be like blaming a chameleon for using its tongue to catch prey. And all because I think his tongue is gross. I wouldn't do that.

I will point out that on the Marketplace of Ideas, insults win over sound arguments. In order for sound arguments to prevail, insults must be regulated against.

Don_G wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 11:56am:
There doesn't seem to be any interest shown by the administrator to clean up the bad behaviour so It will likely continue. This is most likely the reason why it hasn't become a popular board for people who are truly interested in political discussion.


You are 100% correct.

Don_G wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 2:43pm:
Your head is too full and you're going to injure your brain if you don't take a break. What an ignorant teenage mutt you have shown yourself to be!


Still not directed at you, but at the system that allows you to gain advantage by this. You're not at fault. In fact, you are to be commended for finding the best, fastest way to prosper the most and exploiting it. In this way, you're smarter than I am. Just like I repeatedly tell Dissident that Muslim immigrants are smarter than him and myself. If the behaviour is advantageous, do it. If you don't, you're just dumb. There's no room for finger-pointing when the strategy you're finger-pointing at is outcompeting yours. Adopt it or STFU.

But this is exactly what I'm talking about. Kaz made a good point about taxes being neither good nor bad inherently. If you were forced by the rules of the forum to address points rather than empowered to insult your way out of having to, I would point out that taxing the poor for the benefit of the rich (a la Robin Hood) is an example of taxes being bad, and you would be forced to concede that some taxes are bad, and others are good.

Jeff wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 4:59pm:
Could you explain to me what you mean by "nazi". Thanks. You could easily include it in the description of "socially responsible socialism". Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


He thinks you're a Nazi because you would ban people for bad ideas.

SkyChief wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 11:41am:
Honestly I never gave it much thought.  I just assumed you were being facetious.  The Lizard has a unique perspective on Libertarian ideals.  I wouldn't call that slander. Slander implies intent to disparage. It over-thinks things because it is genius.

Liberty is a funny thing because it means different things to different people.  Some people on this forum claim to be champions of liberty, and honestly believe that taxes are a good thing and something worth keeping.

A famous Libertarian publicly proclaimed that the government should be granted the power to force the baker to bake the gay-wedding cake!   Shocked


I know, and I respected him for it. He may have dumped metaphorical feces all over libertarian ideals - and I can't approve of that - but he was backed into a corner and chose to be consistent rather than dissemble. This is what it means to be Lawful-aligned. I prefer Lawful-aligned people with sub-Mensa IQs to fellow geniuses any day.

I might brag about one, but the other is what I define myself by. I need principles to be consistent. I want people to be treated equally. I don't like to make exceptions, even when necessary for practicality: The rule is the rule.

I just don't brag about that because it's nothing to brag about. If I could change that, I would.
  

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kaz
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Reply #26 - Jun 20th, 2017 at 8:50am
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 9:34pm:
I've seen this to be true because I pay attention, and this is exactly my point.

Look, the free market is great in a lot of cases. Probably most. But unfortunately there's a reason debate is usually a regulated environment: Insults win over sound arguments. When people are doing it to you, if you don't adopt their tactics, you just lose.


No it's not. This was going on to a lesser degree before you arrived. I could say I'm not blaming anyone but the person who started it but even that's not true. I'm not blaming anyone. Why should I blame someone for using the best tactics that win the most, the easiest? It'd be like blaming a chameleon for using its tongue to catch prey. And all because I think his tongue is gross. I wouldn't do that.

I will point out that on the Marketplace of Ideas, insults win over sound arguments. In order for sound arguments to prevail, insults must be regulated against.


You are 100% correct.


Still not directed at you, but at the system that allows you to gain advantage by this. You're not at fault. In fact, you are to be commended for finding the best, fastest way to prosper the most and exploiting it. In this way, you're smarter than I am. Just like I repeatedly tell Dissident that Muslim immigrants are smarter than him and myself. If the behaviour is advantageous, do it. If you don't, you're just dumb. There's no room for finger-pointing when the strategy you're finger-pointing at is outcompeting yours. Adopt it or STFU.

But this is exactly what I'm talking about. Kaz made a good point about taxes being neither good nor bad inherently. If you were forced by the rules of the forum to address points rather than empowered to insult your way out of having to, I would point out that taxing the poor for the benefit of the rich (a la Robin Hood) is an example of taxes being bad, and you would be forced to concede that some taxes are bad, and others are good.


He thinks you're a Nazi because you would ban people for bad ideas.


I know, and I respected him for it. He may have dumped metaphorical feces all over libertarian ideals - and I can't approve of that - but he was backed into a corner and chose to be consistent rather than dissemble. This is what it means to be Lawful-aligned. I prefer Lawful-aligned people with sub-Mensa IQs to fellow geniuses any day.

I might brag about one, but the other is what I define myself by. I need principles to be consistent. I want people to be treated equally. I don't like to make exceptions, even when necessary for practicality: The rule is the rule.

I just don't brag about that because it's nothing to brag about. If I could change that, I would.


Great post, Opposition.  I see your argument a lot clearer
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Jeff
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Reply #27 - Jun 20th, 2017 at 8:55am
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 9:34pm:
He thinks you're a Nazi because you would ban people for bad ideas.


Is that different than "socially responsible capitalism"?
  
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Jeff
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Reply #28 - Jun 20th, 2017 at 9:10am
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Jeff wrote on Jun 20th, 2017 at 8:55am:
Is that different than "socially responsible capitalism"?

No Jeffy, you adolescent idiot! They are the same thing!

National Socialists in Germany and Fascists in Italy both banned speech that didn't serve the societies they were trying to create, and they were both trying to create societies that were in the best interests of the Volk.

Both the Nazi and the Fascist plans included "socially responsible capitalism"... All companies that weren't directly "socialized" were tightly controlled and required to serve "the people" in a "socially responsible" way... For the greater good of all! Cheesy

On a private forum, people who try to drown out honest discussion with a constant stream of recycled Nazi and Fascist (and Marxist) ideas can be legitimately banned for in essence shouting down honest discussion.

Personally I would ban them because there is nothing but death and destruction at the heart of their musty old bad ideas.

I have been banned from forums for expressing libertarian ideas. They were private forums. They thought libertarian ideas were bad. They gave me the boot, because my recycled ideas from classic liberals were interfering with their discussion about how to re-create Nazi Germany by calling National Socialism a "socially responsible" system of government.
  
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Don_G
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Reply #29 - Jun 20th, 2017 at 11:09am
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kaz wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 12:07pm:
You're a large government authoritarian.  Don't be ridiculous, there is nothing libertarian about you.  Why do you even say stupid shit like that?


Yes, but I still say: my views are libertarian within the realm of possibilities. I simply point out and reject the impossible.

But that has nothing to do with the OP and the reason why Chief felt it necessary to start this thread.
  
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