Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › The Real Reason the End May be Near.
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2  Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) The Real Reason the End May be Near. (Read 135 times)
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 787
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
The Real Reason the End May be Near.
Jun 19th, 2017 at 12:17pm
Print Post  
https://www.rt.com/news/393028-syria-russia-us-plane/

For the sake of discussion I'm able to claim that Russia has the high road on this one. The UNSC won't agree but that's beside the point. The implications are pretty scary and it's likely because Trump has allowed his generals to make important decisions that we always made by Obama.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Small Government Libertarian

Posts: 598
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: The Real Reason the End May be Near.
Reply #1 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 12:28pm
Print Post  
Don_G wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 12:17pm:
https://www.rt.com/news/393028-syria-russia-us-plane/

For the sake of discussion I'm able to claim that Russia has the high road on this one. The UNSC won't agree but that's beside the point. The implications are pretty scary and it's likely because Trump has allowed his generals to make important decisions that we always made by Obama.


Trump's generals like Obama are fighting on the side of ISIS in Syria, there is no difference.  It's amazing how you can look at a Republican and Democrat doing the same thing and see the Republican as wrong and the Democrat as right.

They are both wrong.  We should not be Syria, and if we are in Syria we sure as hell shouldn't be fighting for ISIS as both Obama and Trump have done
  

Man does not control his own fate. The women in his life do that for him - Groucho Marx

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way - Mark Twain
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 787
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: The Real Reason the End May be Near.
Reply #2 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 12:34pm
Print Post  
kaz wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 12:28pm:
Trump's generals like Obama are fighting on the side of ISIS in Syria, there is no difference.  It's amazing how you can look at a Republican and Democrat doing the same thing and see the Republican as wrong and the Democrat as right.

They are both wrong.  We should not be Syria, and if we are in Syria we sure as hell shouldn't be fighting for ISIS as both Obama and Trump have done


I could show you proof that Obama was responsible for preventing war in Syria and his admin has made it practically impossible for war with Iran.

If you are interested in a rational discussion without your usual bad behaviour then let's do it. I'm not going to entertain your childish behaviour on this thread.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Small Government Libertarian

Posts: 598
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: The Real Reason the End May be Near.
Reply #3 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 12:53pm
Print Post  
Don_G wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 12:34pm:
I could show you proof that Obama was responsible for preventing war in Syria and his admin has made it practically impossible for war with Iran


You're full of shit.  Obama hasn't prevented war in Syria, there's a civil war going on there.  And Russia has limited Iran, not the US.  You don't grasp the whole Sunni/Shiite thing at all, do ya, Sport?  Until you know that, you don't know shit about the middle east.

Let's start with the most basic dynamic in the Middle East.  Iran is an ally of the Syrian government.  Do you know why?

Also, the Russians while they are at least fighting on the right side aren't doing it for any high road.  They're doing it for two big reasons outside the Sunni/Shiite conflict in Syria.  Do you know what they are?  One is something they are preserving, the other is something they are blocking.

You have no freaking idea what they are, do you?

Don_G wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 12:34pm:
If you are interested in a rational discussion without your usual bad behaviour then let's do it. I'm not going to entertain your childish behaviour on this thread.


Gosh, I made you cry again, that's so sad.  I'm going to cry for you.   Grin

Sorry Sport, I tried, I really did.  It's so funny how not only did I start insulting you because you insult me, but I've offered to stop insulting you specifically if you stop insulting me.  You declined the offer, then keep crying about it.  What a dumb ass
  

Man does not control his own fate. The women in his life do that for him - Groucho Marx

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way - Mark Twain
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 787
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: The Real Reason the End May be Near.
Reply #4 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 1:08pm
Print Post  
kaz wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 12:53pm:
You're full of shit.  Obama hasn't prevented war in Syria, there's a civil war going on there.  And Russia has limited Iran, not the US.  You don't grasp the whole Sunni/Shiite thing at all, do ya, Sport?  Until you know that, you don't know shit about the middle east.


I'll try once more.

Obama cooperated with Putin to enforce Obama's red line speech. Together, Russia and the US were successful in eliminating Assad's chem/bio arsenal. This prevented the US led war that Obama would have been seen as justified because his conditions were met. Now Russia has been empowered by that success to legitimately be present in Syria, thus taking away any possibility of the US starting the PNAC planned war to take over control of Syria.

Quote:
Let's start with the most basic dynamic in the Middle East.  Iran is an ally of the Syrian government.  Do you know why?


Yes and yes.

Quote:
Also, the Russians while they are at least fighting on the right side aren't doing it for any high road.  They're doing it for two big reasons outside the Sunni/Shiite conflict in Syria.  Do you know what they are?  One is something they are preserving, the other is something they are blocking.


There is no moral high road for either side, Russia or US. But the Russians are in Syria on a legal basis because they have the government's blessings. Russia is intent on keeping Syria within it's sphere of influence. China too. The US's PNAC agenda wasn't completed in time before Russia came back onto the world scene. The US's window of opportunity after the fall of the Soviet Union, has been slammed shut!

Quote:
You have no freaking idea what they are, do you?


I understand the situation completely. Ask me!

Quote:
Sorry Sport, I tried, I really did.  It's so funny how not only did I start insulting you because you insult me, but I've offered to stop insulting you specifically if you stop insulting me.  You declined the offer, then keep crying about it.  What a dumb ass


I'm not interested in making any deals with you. It will stop when the topic becomes more important.

If you want my further opinions on how Obama was responsible for the current situation on Iran then just ask. For now, I'll leave it to you to lead the conversation by responding to my views.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Small Government Libertarian

Posts: 598
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: The Real Reason the End May be Near.
Reply #5 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 1:17pm
Print Post  
Don_G wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 1:08pm:
I'll try once more.

Obama cooperated with Putin to enforce Obama's red line speech. Together, Russia and the US were successful in eliminating Assad's chem/bio arsenal


Funny how you continue this lie even after Assad proved it was a lie by using them.  Obama accomplished shit and the Russians didn't care

Don_G wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 1:08pm:
This prevented the US led war that Obama would have been seen as justified because his conditions were met. Now Russia has been empowered by that success to legitimately be present in Syria, thus taking away any possibility of the US starting the PNAC planned war to take over control of Syria.


Your Democrat Gods will be proud to read this drivel



Don_G wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 1:08pm:
Yes and yes


Obviously not true since you didn't grasp Iran's role in Syria or even which side they are on.

So again, why is Iran allied with the Syrian government?


Don_G wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 1:08pm:
There is no moral high road for either side, Russia or US


And your story changes again, you claimed they have the high ground in this ...

Don_G wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 1:08pm:
But the Russians are in Syria on a legal basis because they have the government's blessings. Russia is intent on keeping Syria within it's sphere of influence. China too. The US's PNAC agenda wasn't completed in time before Russia came back onto the world scene. The US's window of opportunity after the fall of the Soviet Union, has been slammed shut!


I asked you what the Russian's two huge reasons are beyond the Sunni/Shiite thing.  They are both huge, this is not a trick question. 

It is true that Russia wants to keep Iran out of Syria.  You don't know why, do you? 

Don_G wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 1:08pm:
I understand the situation completely. Ask me!


Saying you know why without being able to answer any of the questions is irrelevant.

Don_G wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 1:08pm:
I'm not interested in making any deals with you. It will stop when the topic becomes more important


Swish, missed another simple point.  My point was either make a deal with me or stop whining about it.  You insult me, then you whine when you get it back.  There is nothing but childishness in that

Don_G wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 1:08pm:
If you want my further opinions on how Obama was responsible for the current situation on Iran then just ask. For now, I'll leave it to you to lead the conversation by responding to my views.


Sure, I have a question on Obama.  Why do you continue to attack Trump for policies Obama did as if Trump started the policy if you're not the Democrat shill you claim to be?

I oppose both parties ME policies and say so.  You make yourself sound like a Democrat mouthpiece, yet you say you have the same policy as me ...
  

Man does not control his own fate. The women in his life do that for him - Groucho Marx

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way - Mark Twain
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Small Government Libertarian

Posts: 598
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: The Real Reason the End May be Near.
Reply #6 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 1:19pm
Print Post  
So Don, summarizing the basic Syria questions you haven't known the answers to.  All go to the Russian's motivation in Syria:

1)  What is the huge thing that Russia wants to keep?

2)  What is the huge thing that Russia wants to block?

3)  Why are the Iranians allied with the Syrian government?

4)  Why does Russia want to keep Iran out of Syria even though they both support the Syrian government?

Those are basic questions with obvious answers to anyone informed on the region, Donnie the Democrat.  They aren't political questions.  People allied with both sides may have different opinions on what the Russians should do, but no one would disagree with the answers to the questions.

Let's add Iraq to it though.

5)  Who does Russia support in Iraq and why?  How does it fit into the first four questions?
  

Man does not control his own fate. The women in his life do that for him - Groucho Marx

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way - Mark Twain
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 787
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: The Real Reason the End May be Near.
Reply #7 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 1:39pm
Print Post  
kaz wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 1:19pm:
1)  What is the huge thing that Russia wants to keep?[quote'

I can only imagine that relates to Syria. If so then Russia wants to keep Syria in it's sphere of influence. Since the fall of the Soviet Union the US has run roughshod throughout the world with it's wars of aggression. I'm saying that now Russia and China have stepped up and drawn a line in the sand on Syria and in the near future, Iran too.

[quote]2)  What is the huge thing that Russia wants to block?


The US taking Syria and installing a US friendly government and dictator.

Quote:
3)  Why are the Iranians allied with the Syrian government?
Religious priorities of course.

Quote:
4)  Why does Russia want to keep Iran out of Syria even though they both support the Syrian government?


Good question! If true then my explanation would be that Russia doesn't want the US to be able to use the Iran presence to justify US presence in Syria.
Do you agree or would you like to offer a different explanation?

Quote:
Those are basic questions with obvious answers to anyone informed on the region, .....  They aren't political questions.  People allied with both sides may have different opinions on what the Russians should do, but no one would disagree with the answers to the questions.


Well then, let's see if we disagree and then we can pursue the differences in conversation.

Quote:
Let's add Iraq to it though.

5)  Who does Russia support in Iraq and why?  How does it fit into the first four questions?


I would rather not add Iraq because it's more complicated but in general Russia wants to see US failure in Iraq. So does Iran.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Small Government Libertarian

Posts: 598
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: The Real Reason the End May be Near.
Reply #8 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 2:05pm
Print Post  
Your answers are hilarious.  You say the US thinks it's the center of the universe, yet all your answers are that are the center of the universe and everything does everything because of us.  LOL.  Here are the correct answers:

1)  What is the huge thing that Russia wants to keep?

Don:  I can only imagine that relates to Syria. If so then Russia wants to keep Syria in it's sphere of influence. Since the fall of the Soviet Union the US has run roughshod throughout the world with it's wars of aggression. I'm saying that now Russia and China have stepped up and drawn a line in the sand on Syria and in the near future, Iran too

Answer:  Nope, the answer is far more direct to Russian interests than that.  Russia has a huge military installation in Syria.  Assad badly needs it there.  Would a Sunni government allow them to keep it? 

-----------------

2)  What is the huge thing that Russia wants to block?

Don: The US taking Syria and installing a US friendly government and dictator

Answer:  Wrong again.  Again your US dominated view of the world order, LOL.  Nope, it's all about Russia.  Russia dominates European energy supply.   That is why the US has such a hard time getting real cooperation in economic sanctions against Russia.  Russia is willing to use energy to punish them.

The Sunni governments of the Gulf want to build a pipeline to Europe.  Through ... wait for it ... Syria ...  That would both reduce profits/margins for the Russians and their grip over European policy.  The Russian control over Syria is they are propping up Assad.   A Sunni Syrian government would have no such allegiance.

-----------------

3)  Why are the Iranians allied with the Syrian government?

Don:  Religious priorities of course

Answer:  Not very precise, but yes.  The Iranians are Shiite, the Syrian government is Shiite.

Aside, the Sunnis and Shiites are not analogous to Presbyterians and Methodists.  They hate each other.  80% of Muslims are Sunni.  They hate Shiites more than Jews and call them "dogs" and unclean. 

-----------------

4)  Why does Russia want to keep Iran out of Syria even though they both support the Syrian government?

Don:  Good question! If true then my explanation would be that Russia doesn't want the US to be able to use the Iran presence to justify US presence in Syria.
Do you agree or would you like to offer a different explanation?

Answer:  Wrong again.  You're obsessed with the world revolving around the United States. It's business.  Russia is deeply allied with Iran.  They have broad energy and other business dealings.  Remember that 80% of Muslims are Sunni and hate Shiites.  If you're Russia, the last thing you want for business is to have Iran in a war with Sunnis.  It will potentially attract other Sunni nations to fight Iran and be more harm than good.  That's why Russia steps in and handles it.

-----------------

5)  Who does Russia support in Iraq and why?  How does it fit into the first four questions?

Don:  I would rather not add Iraq because it's more complicated but in general Russia wants to see US failure in Iraq. So does Iran.

Answer:  Again showing you don't understand the basic ME dynamics.  You can't ignore Iraq.  The Soviets support ... the Shiites.

Note the picture from the above questions.  The Russian's allies are 20% of the Muslim world and hated by the 80%.  If you get out a map, look at how Syria, Iraq and Iran draw a line across the middle east.  Clearly, Russia's interest is preserving that line.  And you want to toss out Iraq?  You can't, that's why I keep saying you don't really know what's going on there.

Again again, LOL, you see everything everyone is doing as being tied up with the US when it's not.  We're not needed there and shouldn't be there.  Let them kill each other
  

Man does not control his own fate. The women in his life do that for him - Groucho Marx

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way - Mark Twain
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 787
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: The Real Reason the End May be Near.
Reply #9 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 2:24pm
Print Post  
kaz wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 2:05pm:
Your answers are hilarious.  You say the US thinks it's the center of the universe, yet all your answers are that are the center of the universe and everything does everything because of us.  LOL.  Here are the correct answers:

1)  What is the huge thing that Russia wants to keep?

Don:  I can only imagine that relates to Syria. If so then Russia wants to keep Syria in it's sphere of influence. Since the fall of the Soviet Union the US has run roughshod throughout the world with it's wars of aggression. I'm saying that now Russia and China have stepped up and drawn a line in the sand on Syria and in the near future, Iran too

Answer:  Nope, the answer is far more direct to Russian interests than that.  Russia has a huge military installation in Syria.  Assad badly needs it there.  Would a Sunni government allow them to keep it? 


The Russian base cam later. You're totally lost for answers and in way over your head with me on this.

-----------------

2)  What is the huge thing that Russia wants to block?

Don: The US taking Syria and installing a US friendly government and dictator

Quote:
Answer:  Wrong again.  Again your US dominated view of the world order, LOL.  Nope, it's all about Russia.  Russia dominates European energy supply.   That is why the US has such a hard time getting real cooperation in economic sanctions against Russia.  Russia is willing to use energy to punish them.


You're into making up nonsense because you're lost and in way over your head.

Quote:
The Sunni governments of the Gulf want to build a pipeline to Europe.  Through ... wait for it ... Syria ...  That would both reduce profits/margins for the Russians and their grip over European policy.  The Russian control over Syria is they are propping up Assad.   A Sunni Syrian government would have no such allegiance.


You're trying to make up something to disagree with me over. You're just completely lost and in over your head.

-----------------

Quote:
3)  Why are the Iranians allied with the Syrian government?

Don:  Religious priorities of course

Answer:  Not very precise, but yes.  The Iranians are Shiite, the Syrian government is Shiite.


Wow! something you couldn't come up with an alternative over so you tell me I wasn't precise. You are a very funny boy! LOL

Quote:
Aside, the Sunnis and Shiites are not analogous to Presbyterians and Methodists.  They hate each other.  80% of Muslims are Sunni.  They hate Shiites more than Jews and call them "dogs" and unclean. 


You don't say!! Imagine that! I'm finished with you but you can still read what I have to say and learn if you like. And if you're polite then I'll respond if you make any points worth hearing.

What a fu-king waste of air you are! 

-----------------

Quote:
4)  Why does Russia want to keep Iran out of Syria even though they both support the Syrian government?

Don:  Good question! If true then my explanation would be that Russia doesn't want the US to be able to use the Iran presence to justify US presence in Syria.
Do you agree or would you like to offer a different explanation?

Answer:  Wrong again.  You're obsessed with the world revolving around the United States. It's business.  Russia is deeply allied with Iran.  They have broad energy and other business dealings.  Remember that 80% of Muslims are Sunni and hate Shiites.  If you're Russia, the last thing you want for business is to have Iran in a war with Sunnis.  It will potentially attract other Sunni nations to fight Iran and be more harm than good.  That's why Russia steps in and handles it.


You're not making a point, you'r baffling yourself with bullshit. You're in way over your head!

-----------------

Quote:
5)  Who does Russia support in Iraq and why?  How does it fit into the first four questions?

Don:  I would rather not add Iraq because it's more complicated but in general Russia wants to see US failure in Iraq. So does Iran.

Answer:  Again showing you don't understand the basic ME dynamics.  You can't ignore Iraq.  The Soviets support ... the Shiites.

Note the picture from the above questions.  The Russian's allies are 20% of the Muslim world and hated by the 80%.  If you get out a map, look at how Syria, Iraq and Iran draw a line across the middle east.  Clearly, Russia's interest is preserving that line.  And you want to toss out Iraq?  You can't, that's why I keep saying you don't really know what's going on there.

Again again, LOL, you see everything everyone is doing as being tied up with the US when it's not.  We're not needed there and shouldn't be there.  Let them kill each other


LOL As I've said, you can read what I say on the topic and learn. Right now, you know next to nothing and are just trying to find disagreement by changing the subject and parroting parts of what you're heard on Fox news. You're lost and in way over your empty head. Have a nice day!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › The Real Reason the End May be Near.
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy