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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Libertarianism Supporting Social Reform (Read 405 times)
Don_G
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Libertarianism Supporting Social Reform
Jun 19th, 2017 at 12:29pm
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Social reform will be referred to by a rightist libertarian as 'the welfare state' but this is not the case.

http://thoughtsonliberty.com/what-is-left-libertarianism

Many rational thinking libertarians do indeed beleive in social reform which includes good government. And in fact it's the only style of libertarianism that can work in actual practice.

It's now time to start to discuss left-libertarianism. If maintaine on that rational level it could play a part in the great change that has to come to US politics.
  
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kaz
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Re: Libertarianism Supporting Social Reform
Reply #1 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 12:42pm
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Don_G wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 12:29pm:
Many rational thinking libertarians do indeed beleive in social reform which includes good government


Bull shit.  The whole concept of libertarianism is built on the basic recognition there is no such thing as "good government."  There is necessary government (military, police, courts, ...), but "good government" is an oxymoron

Don_G wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 12:29pm:
It's now time to start to discuss left-libertarianism. If maintaine on that rational level it could play a part in the great change that has to come to US politics.


I'll explain "left-libertarian" to you.

An environmentalist is someone who elects Democrats through environmental issues while doing nothing for the environment

A feminist is someone who elects Democrats through gender issues while doing nothing for women

A black activist is someone who elects Democrats through racial issues while doing nothing for blacks

A left-libertarian is someone who elects Democrats through free speech issues while doing nothing for free speech
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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SkyChief
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Re: Libertarianism Supporting Social Reform
Reply #2 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 1:00pm
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Social Reform is a term invented by Karl Marx in his publication Manifesto of the Communists published in 1848. It is entirely subversive to all libertarian ideas.

In the article you linked, the term social reform is not mentioned.  Not once.  Social tolerance, social justice, and criminal justice reform are mentioned.  But not social reform.  Auntie M. knows better.

You are using special pleading to conflate social reform with libertarian ideals.  It just doesn't work.  Marxism is as far away from libertarianism as you can possibly get!  They are opposite ends of the political spectrum.
  
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kaz
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Re: Libertarianism Supporting Social Reform
Reply #3 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 1:09pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 1:00pm:
Social Reform is a term invented by Karl Marx in his publication Manifesto of the Communists published in 1848. It is entirely subversive to all libertarian ideas


Yes, it is.  With the caveat you are referring to government doing social reform.  We're entirely in favor of the people doing it
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Don_G
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Re: Libertarianism Supporting Social Reform
Reply #4 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 1:18pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 1:00pm:
Social Reform is a term invented by Karl Marx in his publication Manifesto of the Communists published in 1848. It is entirely subversive to all libertarian ideas.

In the article you linked, the term social reform is not mentioned.  Not once.  Social tolerance, social justice, and criminal justice reform are mentioned.  But not social reform.  Auntie M. knows better.

You are using special pleading to conflate social reform with libertarian ideals.  It just doesn't work.  Marxism is as far away from libertarianism as you can possibly get!  They are opposite ends of the political spectrum.


If even the words, 'social' and 'reform' set you off then you aren't interested in any discussion. It's akin to the word, 'progress' or 'progressive' in that you aren't taking the words literally but rather interpreting them as a political agenda. Forget it, I've tried at least.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Libertarianism Supporting Social Reform
Reply #5 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 1:19pm
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kaz wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 1:09pm:
Yes, it is.  With the caveat you are referring to government doing social reform.  We're entirely in favor of the people doing it


there something to that which could be discussed!
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Libertarianism Supporting Social Reform
Reply #6 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 1:19pm
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Here is an oath I had to take prior to becoming a member of the Libertarian Party:


To validate my membership, I certify that I oppose the initiation of force to achieve political or social goals.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Libertarianism Supporting Social Reform
Reply #7 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 1:31pm
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Don_G wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 1:18pm:
If even the words, 'social' and 'reform' set you off then you aren't interested in any discussion. It's akin to the word, 'progress' or 'progressive' in that you aren't taking the words literally but rather interpreting them as a political agenda. Forget it, I've tried at least.

The term social reform didn't "set me off".  I just know that the term is a Marxist construct.  You have touted other Marxist views in other threads.

Income tax was invented by Karl Marx.  Its one of the 10 planks of the Communist Manifesto. That's why it was so dissapointing when Woodrow Wilson signed the Income Tax Amendment in 1913.  The Supreme Court should have intervened, but they sat on their thumbs.   Shameful!
  
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kaz
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Re: Libertarianism Supporting Social Reform
Reply #8 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 1:33pm
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Don_G wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 1:18pm:
If even the words, 'social' and 'reform' set you off then you aren't interested in any discussion. It's akin to the word, 'progress' or 'progressive' in that you aren't taking the words literally but rather interpreting them as a political agenda. Forget it, I've tried at least.


Again, to say you support something and you support the government doing it are entirely different things and you're equating them.

Government doing social reform is a non-starter, it isn't capable.

Would you agree to the CEOs of the top 10 Fortune companies deciding what social reform the government should do?  Why not?  Now apply that answer to politicians and why it's a non-starter will emerge ...
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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kaz
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Re: Libertarianism Supporting Social Reform
Reply #9 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 1:34pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 1:31pm:
The term social reform didn't "set me off".  I just know that the term is a Marxist construct.  You have touted other Marxist views in other threads.

Income tax was invented by Karl Marx.  Its one of the 10 planks of the Communist Manifesto. That's why it was so dissapointing when Woodrow Wilson signed the Income Tax Amendment in 1913.  The Supreme Court should have intervened, but they sat on their thumbs.   Shameful!


Yep, social reform when conducted by government is a shallow excuse to expand the power of politicians and bureaucrats over our economy.  It's a power grab.  Only the most inane of sheep fail to see that.  You know, Don ...
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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