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kaz
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Re: Consent of the governed and classic liberalism
Reply #30 - Aug 7th, 2017 at 5:06pm
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Jeff wrote on Aug 7th, 2017 at 4:57pm:
As I've said before, I'm simple minded.

If you think I am wrong to believe that slavery was the root cause of the Civil War, tell me why


Saying your answer was simplistic doesn't mean it was wrong.  The North was growing faster than the South and the North was becoming much more industrial.   The Missouri compromise wasn't sustainable as the North was just growing so much faster.

Absolutely, slavery was abhorrent, but it wasn't just a lifestyle choice, the entire South's economy was built around agriculture and it wasn't going to be an easy transition, it wasn't.

And yes, slavery was built into that.  Which is why when you said the war was over slavery I did not say that's wrong, but I said it is simplistic

Jeff wrote on Aug 7th, 2017 at 4:57pm:
And tell me what you mean by "consent of the governed".

How many times will you force me to ask?


Until you can tell me what you're looking for.  You seem to be wanting to send me on a research and report assignment that you can then just sit and cherry pick anything you want to respond to and ignore the rest.

Consent of the governed as it pertains to the discussion covers two things, both of which I have repeatedly told you.

1)  There is no doubt that the South in the 1860s no longer consented to be governed by the US Federal government.  That they raised armies and tried to fight off the invaders of their States commanded by the tyrant Lincoln is pretty clear

2)  Today, the large liberal States implement tyranny of the majority by out voting everyone else pulling us into a sink hole of socialism.  They don't give two shits about what the rest of us think because they can simply outvote us and the tyrant Lincoln removed our ability to do anything about it
  

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Jeff
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Re: Consent of the governed and classic liberalism
Reply #31 - Aug 7th, 2017 at 5:26pm
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kaz wrote on Aug 7th, 2017 at 5:06pm:
Saying your answer was simplistic doesn't mean it was wrong.  The North was growing faster than the South and the North was becoming much more industrial.   The Missouri compromise wasn't sustainable as the North was just growing so much faster.

Absolutely, slavery was abhorrent, but it wasn't just a lifestyle choice, the entire South's economy was built around agriculture and it wasn't going to be an easy transition, it wasn't.

And yes, slavery was built into that.  Which is why when you said the war was over slavery I did not say that's wrong, but I said it is simplistic


Actually it was me who said it was simplistic.

The question I asked was, if you don't think slavery was the root cause of the Civil, war, what was?

You keep telling me "Lincoln didn't invade the slave states because of slavery". Tell me why you think he did... You know, other than that Congress had declared War. Grin
  
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kaz
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Re: Consent of the governed and classic liberalism
Reply #32 - Aug 7th, 2017 at 5:29pm
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Jeff wrote on Aug 7th, 2017 at 5:26pm:
Actually it was me who said it was simplistic.

The question I asked was, if you don't think slavery was the root cause of the Civil, war, what was?

You keep telling me "Lincoln didn't invade the slave states because of slavery". Tell me why you think he did... You know, other than that Congress had declared War. Grin


I directly answered that question in the quote.  Seriously, Jeff
  

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Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Jeff
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Re: Consent of the governed and classic liberalism
Reply #33 - Aug 7th, 2017 at 5:32pm
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kaz wrote on Aug 7th, 2017 at 5:06pm:
Until you can tell me what you're looking for.
We agree that the consent of the people is necessary to legitimize any government.

You keep harping on the issue, but you won't tell me what you mean by it or how you think it can be achieved.

You claim that slave states had the "consent of the governed"  to keep people in bondage and to leave the Union in order to endure that they would stay in bondage.

That makes me question what you mean by "consent of the governed", so I have. And I will continue to ask, what do you mean by "consent of the governed"?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Consent of the governed and classic liberalism
Reply #34 - Aug 7th, 2017 at 5:33pm
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kaz wrote on Aug 7th, 2017 at 5:29pm:
I directly answered that question in the quote.  Seriously, Jeff
You've morphed into the Donat. Cry
  
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kaz
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Re: Consent of the governed and classic liberalism
Reply #35 - Aug 7th, 2017 at 5:37pm
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Jeff wrote on Aug 7th, 2017 at 5:33pm:
You've morphed into the Donat. Cry


No, you're being Jeff.   You quoted my direct answer to the question and asked me to answer the question in the same post you quoted my answer.  That is so totally Jeff.

You're also being Burt as you believe in the social contract as he does while I believe in consent of the governed as John Locke and the Founding Fathers did.

Are you seriously arguing that the South while raising an army and fighting the North for four years continued to consent to be governed by the Federal government?  Seriously?
  

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Jeff
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Re: Consent of the governed and classic liberalism
Reply #36 - Aug 7th, 2017 at 5:46pm
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kaz wrote on Aug 7th, 2017 at 5:37pm:
...I believe in consent of the governed as John Locke and the Founding Fathers did.

Wonderful. Can you articulate your belief?
  
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kaz
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Re: Consent of the governed and classic liberalism
Reply #37 - Aug 7th, 2017 at 6:41pm
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Jeff wrote on Aug 7th, 2017 at 5:46pm:
Wonderful. Can you articulate your belief?


Yes.

Now you answer my question.  So you actually believe that the South raised an army, fought the Union for four years, and continued to consent to be governed by the Federal government?  Seriously, that's a question to you?
  

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Jeff
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Re: Consent of the governed and classic liberalism
Reply #38 - Aug 7th, 2017 at 6:50pm
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kaz wrote on Aug 7th, 2017 at 6:41pm:
Yes.

Now you answer my question.

Crappity Smack you.

You have consistently maintained that "the consent of the governed" is essential to this discussion, while you have consistently refused to tell me what you mean by that.

Crappity Smack you.

Edited for punctuation.
  
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kaz
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Re: Consent of the governed and classic liberalism
Reply #39 - Aug 7th, 2017 at 7:48pm
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Jeff wrote on Aug 7th, 2017 at 6:50pm:
Crappity Smack you.

You have consistently maintained that "the consent of the governed" is essential to this discussion, while you have consistently refused to tell me what you mean by that.

Crappity Smack you.

Edited for punctuation.


So you believe the South, that raised an army that fought the Union for four years consented to be governed by the Federal government?  Seriously?

Here's the difference.  I keep answering your question and you're too stoned/drunk to realize it.  You keep running away and hiding from my question.  Wow, that's like Burt ...
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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