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Tom Palven
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FREEING THE WORLD TO DEATH
Aug 10th, 2017 at 7:01pm
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Jeff
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Re: FREEING THE WORLD TO DEATH
Reply #1 - Aug 10th, 2017 at 7:16pm
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Tom Palven wrote on Aug 10th, 2017 at 7:01pm:
BS that has no place on a libertarian freedom forum. It's off topic.
  
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Tom Palven
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Re: FREEING THE WORLD TO DEATH
Reply #2 - Aug 10th, 2017 at 7:35pm
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Jeff wrote on Aug 10th, 2017 at 7:16pm:
BS that has no place on a libertarian freedom forum. It's off topic.


Nonintervention is no longer a libertarian position, but beating war drums is? 

Well, since the LP nominated Bob Barr for President in 2008 I can see your point.
  
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kaz
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Re: FREEING THE WORLD TO DEATH
Reply #3 - Aug 10th, 2017 at 8:44pm
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Tom Palven wrote on Aug 10th, 2017 at 7:01pm:


Yet another spam thread by the neocon Tom
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Don_G
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Re: FREEING THE WORLD TO DEATH
Reply #4 - Aug 11th, 2017 at 11:47am
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Jeff wrote on Aug 10th, 2017 at 7:16pm:
BS that has no place on a libertarian freedom forum. It's off topic.


I disagree on it not having a place on this forum. One of the few honest stances the libertarians could espouse is antiwar and exposing the US lies in it's continual warmaking.

There doesn't seem to be any libertarian in you and you don't even pretend there is. Don't start telling decent people like Tom what is appropriate or not.

You have something to say Jeff, that is worth hearing. Why not stick to that kind of message?
  
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Tom Palven
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Re: FREEING THE WORLD TO DEATH
Reply #5 - Aug 11th, 2017 at 7:28pm
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Jeff wrote on Aug 10th, 2017 at 7:16pm:
BS that has no place on a libertarian freedom forum. It's off topic.


The US may free North Korea, and now maybe Venezuela, too...
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-venezuela-military-idUSKBN1AR2GR?il=0
...but the regime still doesn't seem anxious to free Egypt or Saudi Arabia.
  
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kaz
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Re: FREEING THE WORLD TO DEATH
Reply #6 - Aug 11th, 2017 at 10:55pm
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Tom Palven wrote on Aug 11th, 2017 at 7:28pm:
The US may free North Korea, and now maybe Venezuela, too...
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-venezuela-military-idUSKBN1AR2GR?il=0
...but the regime still doesn't seem anxious to free Egypt or Saudi Arabia.


That was your boy Obama.  Try to keep up ...
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Tom Palven
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Re: FREEING THE WORLD TO DEATH
Reply #7 - Aug 12th, 2017 at 5:26am
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kaz wrote on Aug 11th, 2017 at 10:55pm:
That was your boy Obama.  Try to keep up ...


They say a picture's worth a thousand words:
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=george+bush+king+abdullah+pics&qpvt=george+...

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=trump+el+sisi+meeting&FORM=HDRSC2
  
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stevea
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Re: FREEING THE WORLD TO DEATH
Reply #8 - Aug 12th, 2017 at 10:20am
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Non-intervention  & non-aggression are valid libertarian issues.
The book author's wikipedia page & blog are ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Blum
https://williamblum.org/aer/read/149

Personally I find this a tiresome recitation of the obvious, like attempts to overthrow Castro, and loaded with shallow ideation - chapter titles like “What do the Imperial Mafia Want in Iraq?” or  “Hiroshima: Needless Slaughter, Useful Terror” - speak to a sort of 'hate USA first' attitude and paranoiac conspiracy theory ideation  that denies reality and ignores fact.  It ignores the causa belli in each case.

Tom Palven wrote on Aug 11th, 2017 at 7:28pm:
The US may free North Korea, and now maybe Venezuela, too...


That is geopolitically naive.  Free and fair elections in NoKo would currently require war with China and that is nowhere in the cards.  The best possible outcome is for China to force NoKo to remove their ability to project power.  Maybe China will create new regime change in NoKo, likely to a more conventional commie regime, not us.

Quote:


Venezuela is a very corrupt narco-state and Cuba, has inserted 15,000 operative in Venezuela for the purpose of subverting the will of the ppl and to support the bogus recent election by the corrupt, dictatorial Maduro regime.

Is that sufficient cause to intervene  - eh' libertarians ?
If the guy across the street enslaves another neighbor is that a cause for intervention, or does NAP prevent it ?


Quote:
...but the regime still doesn't seem anxious to free Egypt or Saudi Arabia.


Is some outside agent causing an overthrow of the popular will in those nations ? Are tens of thousands fleeing away from SA or Egypt and disrupting other nations, they way many are now fleeing from Venezuela ? I think not. Your analogy fails badly.

I keep hearing how the US "supports" Saudi Arabia regime.  How EXACTLY ?  Yes we sell them arms, as would CHina & Russia.  Yes we provide some political and intel support about Iranians attempting a power grab via Yemen or Qatar b/c regional stability is on our interest.   I'm not aware the US is in any way involved in suppressing internal dissent in SA or in Egypt.  Just the opposite - the US watched from the sidelines as a popular movement deposed Mubarak.

My understanding is that SA has a good education & HC system, makes generous loans to ppl for homebuilding, tho' unemployment is often >20%!  Unequal wealth, but few are in dire poverty.   Lack of  restriction on emigration addresses a basic issue.  There is nothing to recommend about an absolute monarchy, and the use of corporal punishment in the criminal justice system is at best medieval.  The existence of religious crimes, like apostasy, defies any sort of Western ideal.   Still, SA has a positive net migration rate.   So as much as you and I might find the place intolerable, and therefore leave - the locals do the opposite.



  
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kaz
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Re: FREEING THE WORLD TO DEATH
Reply #9 - Aug 12th, 2017 at 10:33am
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Tom Palven wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 5:26am:


Calm down, calm down.  Don't get so upset, it's just a discussion on a message board.

Ah, so my positions opposing the invasion of Iraq, striking Syria and a premtive attack on North Korea are wrong?  You are owned by the deep state, aren't you, McCain Jr?

So you advocated Trump talk to North Korea, now you're saying he shouldn't?  They could take pictures of him.  Make up your mind, neocon moonbat
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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