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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) FREEING THE WORLD TO DEATH (Read 697 times)
Tom Palven
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Re: FREEING THE WORLD TO DEATH
Reply #10 - Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:44am
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stevea wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 10:20am:
Non-intervention  & non-aggression are valid libertarian issues.
The book author's wikipedia page & blog are ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Blum
https://williamblum.org/aer/read/149

Venezuela is a very corrupt narco-state and Cuba, has inserted 15,000 operative in Venezuela for the purpose of subverting the will of the ppl and to support the bogus recent election by the corrupt, dictatorial Maduro regime.

Is that sufficient cause to intervene  - eh' libertarians ?



It's undoubtedly sufficient for today's Bob Barr/Tea Party "libertarians."  These statist/collectivist/neocons want to collectively control the Mid-East, South America, Europe- the whole World.

It's not sufficient for the kind of old-fashioned anti-collectivist individualists of the early LP who endorsed non-intervention and the Non-Aggression Principle.

Preemptive war is initiation of force, the initiation of aggression, and a violation of the NAP pure and simple.

Huge, hot steaming mounds of statist/collectivist BS can't disguise that fact.




  
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kaz
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Re: FREEING THE WORLD TO DEATH
Reply #11 - Aug 13th, 2017 at 7:28am
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Tom Palven wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 3:44am:
It's undoubtedly sufficient for today's Bob Barr/Tea Party "libertarians."  These statist/collectivist/neocons want to collectively control the Mid-East, South America, Europe- the whole World.

It's not sufficient for the kind of old-fashioned anti-collectivist individualists of the early LP who endorsed non-intervention and the Non-Aggression Principle.

Preemptive war is initiation of force, the initiation of aggression, and a violation of the NAP pure and simple.

Huge, hot steaming mounds of statist/collectivist BS can't disguise that fact.



Bob Barr was a terrible candidate and yeah, he's a conservative, not a libertarian.  I didn't vote for him for that reason.  But it was really attention whoring, not his positions why they picked him
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Don_G
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Re: FREEING THE WORLD TO DEATH
Reply #12 - Aug 13th, 2017 at 11:24am
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stevea wrote on Aug 12th, 2017 at 10:20am:
Non-intervention  & non-aggression are valid libertarian issues.
The book author's wikipedia page & blog are ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Blum
https://williamblum.org/aer/read/149

Personally I find this a tiresome recitation of the obvious, like attempts to overthrow Castro, and loaded with shallow ideation - chapter titles like “What do the Imperial Mafia Want in Iraq?” or  “Hiroshima: Needless Slaughter, Useful Terror” - speak to a sort of 'hate USA first' attitude and paranoiac conspiracy theory ideation  that denies reality and ignores fact.  It ignores the causa belli in each case.



You've helping to provide justification for your country's wars before they're even started now!

Do you have a novel excuse or jusification for all 37+ wars that your country has started since WW2. Something that would justify the millions of people slaughtered in wars such as Veitnam and Korea? Did America FREE all those people from having to live?
  
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Tom Palven
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Re: FREEING THE WORLD TO DEATH
Reply #13 - Oct 24th, 2017 at 5:19am
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burnsred
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Re: FREEING THE WORLD TO DEATH
Reply #14 - Oct 24th, 2017 at 7:51am
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Do you have a novel excuse or jusification for all 37+ wars that your country has started since WW2.
You always say, "since WW2."  Is that because in WWII, the U.S. rescued Russia, Western Europe, the UK and UK Jr. (AKA Canada) so that was the "good war?"  But fighting for democracy for brown skinned people is wrong?


  
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Don_G
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Re: FREEING THE WORLD TO DEATH
Reply #15 - Oct 24th, 2017 at 1:53pm
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burnsred wrote on Oct 24th, 2017 at 7:51am:
You always say, "since WW2."  Is that because in WWII, the U.S. rescued Russia, Western Europe, the UK and UK Jr. (AKA Canada) so that was the "good war?"  But fighting for democracy for brown skinned people is wrong?




US aggression was ongoing before WW2 but after that war in which the Soviet Union was our ally, the US effort became much more world threatening. However, it's worth mentioning that the US was involved in preparations to make the S.U. the enemy before that war ended. Using nuclear weapons against the S.U. was contemplated.

So the world changed after WW2 and became a much more dangerous place. The US became the threat to world peace as was evidenced with the Cuban missile crisis which was the Soviet reaction to US plans for aggression being mounted from Trukish missile bases.

And now, more importantly than history, the world is changing again because since Russia has come back as a world power, the US run of aggression since the fall of the Soviet Union has ended. And China is backing Russia up.

Syria is out of bounds now. I've started a new thread on US attempts to use the UN to justify another run at Syria's legitimate government. I'll be expecting you there too in order to defend your country's ongoing attempts at gaining control over Syria too.
  
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burnsred
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Re: FREEING THE WORLD TO DEATH
Reply #16 - Oct 24th, 2017 at 2:56pm
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Replying to post directly above:

Don, you seem to be saying that the U.S. was an vile aggressor all the years leading up to WWII, then paused its aggression for about four years during which time, it was an angelic nation who could do no wrong and immediately after VJ day again became a vicious aggressor.  Very convenient since you claim to be from Canada, a country that would be speaking Japerman right now if it were not for U.S. largess.

Maybe you think that WWI was also a pause in our evilness?   

The fact is that the U.S. was an aggressor throughout the twentieth century and into the 21st.  Our entry into the "War to End All Wars" was a continuation of hideous policies of the racial demagogue Woodrow Wilson.  The absurdly punitive terms we set for Germany's surrender seem almost designed to produce a Third Reich.  Not just in hindsight since it was predicted by libertarians at the time.  Our interference with Japan's ambitions in the Pacific forced them to either attack us or lose the hold on Asia.  Not a hard choice for them.

Rescuing Europe from Hitler only to turn it over to Stalin wasn't worth the sweat off a single American's backside, much less our blood and gold.

  
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Don_G
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Re: FREEING THE WORLD TO DEATH
Reply #17 - Oct 24th, 2017 at 3:38pm
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burnsred wrote on Oct 24th, 2017 at 2:56pm:
Replying to post directly above:

Don, you seem to be saying that the U.S. was an vile aggressor all the years leading up to WWII, then paused its aggression for about four years during which time, it was an angelic nation who could do no wrong and immediately after VJ day again became a vicious aggressor.  Very convenient since you claim to be from Canada, a country that would be speaking Japerman right now if it were not for U.S. largess.

Maybe you think that WWI was also a pause in our evilness?   

The fact is that the U.S. was an aggressor throughout the twentieth century and into the 21st.  Our entry into the "War to End All Wars" was a continuation of hideous policies of the racial demagogue Woodrow Wilson.  The absurdly punitive terms we set for Germany's surrender seem almost designed to produce a Third Reich.  Not just in hindsight since it was predicted by libertarians at the time.  Our interference with Japan's ambitions in the Pacific forced them to either attack us or lose the hold on Asia.  Not a hard choice for them.

Rescuing Europe from Hitler only to turn it over to Stalin wasn't worth the sweat off a single American's backside, much less our blood and gold.



No, your first paragraph is all wrong and I didn't get to reading the rest. Maybe later? And I'll explain later maybe too if I remember to bother. bye for now.
  
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Jeff
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Re: FREEING THE WORLD TO DEATH
Reply #18 - Oct 24th, 2017 at 5:11pm
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Don_G wrote on Oct 24th, 2017 at 3:38pm:
Maybe later? And I'll explain later maybe too...
No, you won't. You can't.
  
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burnsred
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Re: FREEING THE WORLD TO DEATH
Reply #19 - Oct 24th, 2017 at 6:00pm
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No, your first paragraph is all wrong and I didn't get to reading the rest. Maybe later? And I'll explain later maybe too if I remember to bother. bye for now.
If you can't run with the big dogs, don't yip-yap through the window of your smart car.

  
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