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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Freedom of Speech (Read 4398 times)
Billie
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Re: Freedom of Speech
Reply #10 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 2:19pm
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kaz wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 1:44pm:
Antifa's favorite tool to limit speech is fascism

Ironic, or scary?
  
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thermf5
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Re: Freedom of Speech
Reply #11 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 2:22pm
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Billie wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 2:19pm:
Ironic, or scary?

both for me
  
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kaz
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Re: Freedom of Speech
Reply #12 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 2:41pm
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thermf5 wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 2:22pm:
both for me


Agreed
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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The Opposition
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Re: Freedom of Speech
Reply #13 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 3:10pm
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SkyChief wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 1:06pm:
Authoritarians, Globalists, and Cultural Fascists will do whatever they can to censor free speech. It's the nature of the beast. It's in their DNA.   As libertarians, we must push back at every opportunity.  Once they take our free speech, the rest of our natural rights will quickly follow. I guarantee it.


You've got it backwards. Libertarians want companies to be able to fire you for voting Republican or for saying, on your free time, that you support the Republican Party. This destroys free speech.

Authoritarians want to use the power of government to limit freedom and stop this practice. Authoritarians want to protect people at least to the degree that the consequences of free speech are the loss of your livelihood or not death.

Libertarians want to protect ideal freedom at the cost of practical freedom. Authoritarians will sacrifice some ideal freedom, and tell the company that no, you can't fire someone because of their private views as long as the person doesn't express them on your property against your clearly stated wishes.
  

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Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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SkyChief
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Re: Freedom of Speech
Reply #14 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 3:19pm
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The Opposition wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 3:10pm:
You've got it backwards. Libertarians want companies to be able to fire you for voting Republican or for saying, on your free time, that you support the Republican Party. This destroys free speech.

Private companies are private. They can hire or fire whomever they choose, for whatever reason.

I'll concede it would be wrong for the Government to fire an employee for speech made outside of the workplace.

This is why Senator Chappelle-Nadal can't be impeached for posting on facebook that she hopes that Trump is assassinated.  But her constituents should shun and scorn her for her outrageous statement. 

And Maxine, too. We are working on it.  I scorn her at every opportunity, and so do many other of her constituents.
  
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thermf5
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Re: Freedom of Speech
Reply #15 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 3:24pm
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The Opposition wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 3:10pm:
You've got it backwards. Libertarians want companies to be able to fire you for voting Republican or for saying, on your free time, that you support the Republican Party. This destroys free speech.

Authoritarians want to use the power of government to limit freedom and stop this practice. Authoritarians want to protect people at least to the degree that the consequences of free speech are the loss of your livelihood or not death.

Libertarians want to protect ideal freedom at the cost of practical freedom. Authoritarians will sacrifice some ideal freedom, and tell the company that no, you can't fire someone because of their private views as long as the person doesn't express them on your property against your clearly stated wishes.

when sports stars take sponsorship deals most of the time thay have morality clauses in them the same can be said when u buy a franchise when u work for some one else and sing a contract u are consenting the government can rule sextant things in a contract unconscionable there for null and void but currently no goverment has baned morality clauses to my knowagle and who enforces contracts the courts a part of the government
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Freedom of Speech
Reply #16 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 3:26pm
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SkyChief wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 3:19pm:
Private companies are private. They can hire or fire whomever they choose, for whatever reason.


I agree that they should be able to, but this also destroys free speech in practice.

Remember that the Leftists have the power, and that they're not afraid to use it. And put this together with the fact that you don't want welfare. People can't afford to get fired. A libertarian world will be, in practice, the least free. People won't be able to express their opinions, or they'll die.

Ideally this is different from the government putting you in front of a firing squad for saying the wrong thing, and I concede that, but since the result is exactly the same, and since the guy who can't express his opinion still has the same choice - shut up or die - he's not likely to care. I know I wouldn't.
  

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Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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kaz
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Re: Freedom of Speech
Reply #17 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 3:37pm
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The Opposition wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 3:10pm:
You've got it backwards. Libertarians want companies to be able to fire you for voting Republican or for saying, on your free time, that you support the Republican Party. This destroys free speech


Bravo!  You've been on a huge losing streak where very word that comes out of our keyboard is wrong.  You got this one right.  Your employer should absolutely be able to fire you for being a Republican.  And you should be able to fire your employer for the same and find a better job with an employer who isn't an ass

The Opposition wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 3:10pm:
Authoritarians want to use the power of government to limit freedom and stop this practice. Authoritarians want to protect people at least to the degree that the consequences of free speech are the loss of your livelihood or not death.

Libertarians want to protect ideal freedom at the cost of practical freedom. Authoritarians will sacrifice some ideal freedom, and tell the company that no, you can't fire someone because of their private views as long as the person doesn't express them on your property against your clearly stated wishes.


Bull shit.  Government controlling the actions of it's citizens like preventing you from firing someone for being a Republican does not in any way expand freedom.  Government controlling its citizens being freedom is as stupid as it sounds.  Employers and employees not harming anyone should be free to hire, fire, join and quit any association between citizens for whatever reason they want
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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kaz
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Re: Freedom of Speech
Reply #18 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 3:39pm
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SkyChief wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 3:19pm:
Private companies are private. They can hire or fire whomever they choose, for whatever reason


100% agree

SkyChief wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 3:19pm:
I'll concede it would be wrong for the Government to fire an employee for speech made outside of the workplace


I mostly agree.  But there are exceptions when what they do impacts their job.  For example, I don't really have a problem with government teachers being fired for being on TV advancing any radical cause their students could see.  I don't think it's appropriate for the job they took.

Similarly, military, law enforcement, judges shouldn't be saying things that contradict the interest of their job.  Like a judge for example advocating Black Lives Matter and cop killing.  Of course those limits should be spelled out in an employment agreement.

I don't really mind the idea that people who go to government for a living have to choose to limit their rights to do so.  They are supposedly serving the interest of the people even though overwhelmingly they do not.

Then again I think schools should all be private ...
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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The Opposition
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Re: Freedom of Speech
Reply #19 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 3:43pm
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kaz wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 3:37pm:
Bravo!  You've been on a huge losing streak where very word that comes out of our keyboard is wrong.  You got this one right.  Your employer should absolutely be able to fire you for being a Republican.  And you should be able to fire your employer for the same and find a better job with an employer who isn't an ass


Good luck in this Leftist-controlled world.

That's what happens in any industry, right? Journalism, for example? The better people who can produce better results just "find another job" in happy fairy land the happy fairies win by hiring them!

Except fairies are mythical, and so is a free market that works like this.

kaz wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 3:37pm:
Bull shit.  Government controlling the actions of it's citizens like preventing you from firing someone for being a Republican does not in any way expand freedom.  Government controlling its citizens being freedom is as stupid as it sounds.  Employers and employees not harming anyone should be free to hire, fire, join and quit any association between citizens for whatever reason they want


I agree. However you cannot deny that the result of this is a loss of the employee's choice to speak freely and keep his job.

If you live paycheck to paycheck, like many people, this means shut up or die in a world without welfare.

You literally believe in fairies and unicorns if you think finding another job is that easy, and if you think that the fact that Leftists totally will fire you for being a Republican and conservatives won't do the same thing doesn't mean that Leftists will win and take all.
  

Making Sci-Fi great again since 2063.

Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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