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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support? (Read 972 times)
Land of Freedom
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What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Sep 17th, 2017 at 11:21pm
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What would be the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support and teach others about libertarian ideas?
  

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Don_G
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #1 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 11:32am
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Land of Freedom wrote on Sep 17th, 2017 at 11:21pm:
What would be the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support and teach others about libertarian ideas?


I think a libertarian has to start with a pure libertarian stance that honours all freedoms and start from there.

Then when rights and freedoms are considered more closely, some will obviously need to be curtailed due to conflicts of interest.

It's just plain fact that some people's rights and freedoms stand in direct conflict with the rights and freedoms of the society in which they live. That can't be ignored, even though we begin with the acceptance of all rights and freedoms.

Thank you for your question!
  
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SkyChief
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #2 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 11:43am
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Just have them take this simple quiz. It takes less than 2 minutes, and it demonstrates to many people that they are actually libertarian and didn't even know it!!

https://www.cato.org/libertarianmind/libertarian-quiz
  
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Don_G
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #3 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 3:12pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 11:43am:
Just have them take this simple quiz. It takes less than 2 minutes, and it demonstrates to many people that they are actually libertarian and didn't even know it!!

https://www.cato.org/libertarianmind/libertarian-quiz


Your quiz is fatally flawed because some rights are impossible to uphold when they directly clash with other rights and other people's rights.

As long as you continue to run from considering that you will have not moved on to a rational approach to libertarianism.

The very first question that begs the question on seatbelts is exactly that, but you are afraid of examining it in more depth.

Your attitude toward libertarians is a failure because of that. Mine contains no fear of reality.

Your problem isn't going to go away, and neither am I. Your choices are to deal with it, continue to listen to my criticism, or go away yourself.
  
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Don_G
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #4 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 3:36pm
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Own a gun? How big a gun? what kind of gun?

One that is full automatic and shoots guided missiles.

I have a right to live in relative safety from gun violence and allowing people to won shoulder fired rocket launchers is in violation of my rights.

Deal with it! I would suggest putting limits on guns for a start. Now you can start dealing with the limits to your rights in order to honour my rights.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #5 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 8:37pm
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Don_G wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 3:12pm:
Your quiz is fatally flawed because some rights are impossible to uphold when they directly clash with other rights and other people's rights.

As long as you continue to run from considering that you will have not moved on to a rational approach to libertarianism.

The very first question that begs the question on seatbelts is exactly that, but you are afraid of examining it in more depth.

Your attitude toward libertarians is a failure because of that. Mine contains no fear of reality.

Your problem isn't going to go away, and neither am I. Your choices are to deal with it, continue to listen to my criticism, or go away yourself.

Sanctimonious finger-wagging by our resident nanny-state regressive.  Your criticism of libertarian ideology is meaningless. 

You've saddled yourself with the impossible task of re-defining libertarianism.  Your problem - not mine.
  
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Don_G
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #6 - Sep 19th, 2017 at 1:57pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 8:37pm:
Sanctimonious finger-wagging by our resident nanny-state regressive.  Your criticism of libertarian ideology is meaningless. 

You've saddled yourself with the impossible task of re-defining libertarianism.  Your problem - not mine. 


I believe that a sensible and possible form of libertarianism can work for a country or large society.

Your shortsighted view has caused you to disqualify libertarianism for a country or large society.

Tell us why!
  
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SkyChief
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #7 - Sep 19th, 2017 at 2:47pm
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Don_G wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 1:57pm:
I believe that a sensible and possible form of libertarianism can work for a country or large society.

I disagree.  The larger a country becomes, the more difficult it is to preserve libertarianism.

Case in point:  The US.   It started out 95% Libertarian [there were a few Federalists] Over time, government expanded it's scope and power. Then erosion of our liberties and Freedom began.  Corruption seeped in. Cronyism became commonplace and the whole thing collapsed in on itself.  1913 was an especially bad year for Freedom. 

Can you imagine what would have happened if a president had proposed the PATRIOT Act back in 1801?  He would have been tarred and feathered.  Or lynched behind the Capitol building!   But in October 2001, George Bush [43] signed it into law. Congress passed it. SCOTUS looked the other way.  Because the country is no longer libertarian.  It's just too big for that. 

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Your shortsighted view has caused you to disqualify libertarianism for a country or large society.

Tell us why!

Libertarianism can only work in very small numbers. In larger populations, Regressives inevitably will infiltrate and seize power/control via government expansion. There's no escaping this.
  
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Don_G
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #8 - Sep 19th, 2017 at 2:58pm
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Case in point:  The US.   It started out 95% Libertarian [there were a few Federalists] Over time, government expanded it's scope and power.


So libertarianism 'did' work and 'can' work for a large country. I think your attempts to get yourself out of your predicament are just causing you to get in deeper.

We commies are the reason why libertarianism can't work in a large country? Right? We always go and ruin everybody's fun!

Libertarianism can work in a large country Chief. That's where you have to go and that's where you desperately want to go in order to bail your ass out. Get on with it!

You do your part as a libertarian and I'll do my part to try to destroy the notion. Promise! Go for it! Say that libertarianism can work! I'll ruin everything like a commie does and tell you how it can work!

What a peach!
  
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SkyChief
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #9 - Sep 19th, 2017 at 3:32pm
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Don_G wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 2:58pm:
So libertarianism 'did' work and 'can' work for a large country. I think your attempts to get yourself out of your predicament are just causing you to get in deeper.

We commies are the reason why libertarianism can't work in a large country? Right? We always go and ruin everybody's fun!

Libertarianism can work in a large country Chief. That's where you have to go and that's where you desperately want to go in order to bail your ass out. Get on with it!

You do your part as a libertarian and I'll do my part to try to destroy the notion. Promise! Go for it! Say that libertarianism can work! I'll ruin everything like a commie does and tell you how it can work!

What a peach!

Now, now,,  let's not get emotional.  Let's give some other people a chance to offer some strategies which libertarians can take to gain support.

You didn't like mine. I didn't like yours.  No surprises there. 

The horse you and I have been beating is quite dead.   Smiley
  
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