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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support? (Read 974 times)
SkyChief
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #20 - Sep 21st, 2017 at 4:37pm
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Morris wrote on Sep 21st, 2017 at 4:03pm:
Not a word in this "libertarian" definition about opposing US wars and foreign interventionism, or favoring the closing of the 900 or so US military bases located in 100 plus countries...

True.  The quiz is designed to stress the importance of self-ownership.  Its designed to be a sort of Libertarian barometer.

The (intellectually honest) Statist/authoritarian/regressive will always choose "government" on the questions.

A true libertarian will choose the individual ("you") on all the questions.

Morris wrote on Sep 21st, 2017 at 4:03pm:
...or what the rights are of people living outside the US.


Libertarians around the globe believe these Natural rights are universal;  life, liberty, self-defense, and the pursuit of happiness.

In a perfect world, everyone would enjoy these things. The larger and more powerful a government becomes, the more it will infringe on these rights. That's why libertarians typically want to limit the size and powers of government.
  
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Jeff
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #21 - Sep 21st, 2017 at 4:41pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 21st, 2017 at 4:37pm:
True.  The quiz is designed to stress the importance of self-ownership.  Its designed to be a sort of Libertarian barometer.

The (intellectually honest) Statist/authoritarian/regressive will always choose "government" on the questions.

A true libertarian will choose the individual ("you") on all the questions.


Libertarians around the globe believe these Natural rights are universal;  life, liberty, self-defense, and the pursuit of happiness.

In a perfect world, everyone would enjoy these things. The larger and more powerful a government becomes, the more it will infringe on these rights. That's why libertarians typically want to limit the size and powers of government.
Thanks Chief, that was a calming message. A good call in these dangerous times.
  
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Morris
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #22 - Sep 21st, 2017 at 10:15pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 21st, 2017 at 4:37pm:
True.  The quiz is designed to stress the importance of self-ownership.  Its designed to be a sort of Libertarian barometer.

The (intellectually honest) Statist/authoritarian/regressive will always choose "government" on the questions.

A true libertarian will choose the individual ("you") on all the questions.


Libertarians around the globe believe these Natural rights are universal;  life, liberty, self-defense, and the pursuit of happiness.

In a perfect world, everyone would enjoy these things. The larger and more powerful a government becomes, the more it will infringe on these rights. That's why libertarians typically want to limit the size and powers of government.


The quiz is titled "Are You a Libertarian?" And says:
Quote:
Are You a Libertarian? You might be! Find out..."
Somewhere between 30 and 40 million Americans hold libertarian views. Are you one of them? Take this quiz and find out just how libertarian you really are!

You clearly can be a libertarian, according to this definition, without regard to your beliefs on the matters I cited. There are many who call themselves libertarian who don't believe all people in the world have the same rights.

  
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Jeff
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #23 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 10:31am
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Morris wrote on Sep 21st, 2017 at 10:15pm:
There are many who call themselves libertarian who don't believe all people in the world have the same rights.

When people are involved, opinions and ideas are not strictly limited to easily defined categories. Some people spend time trying to define and identify "pure" libertarians who fit neatly into a "libertarian" category. In fact, people are complex and there are tensions created by all ideas of political economy...

I myself like individual Liberty, and in order to secure it, I'm willing to ally myself with anyone who is over the halfway point between Liberty and tyranny. If that means having a law in my town that alcohol can't be sold on Sunday mornings, I can live with that... Don't try to tell me I can't drink alcohol at all though.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #24 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 11:26am
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Morris wrote on Sep 21st, 2017 at 10:15pm:
The quiz is titled "Are You a Libertarian?" And says:
You clearly can be a libertarian, according to this definition, without regard to your beliefs on the matters I cited. There are many who call themselves libertarian who don't believe all people in the world have the same rights.

The quiz is designed to instill the idea that the individual has sovereignty over himself, and thereby assumes that all others have sovereignty over themselves, as well. 

There are much better "libertarian purity" tests out there.   Heres one:

http://www.bcaplan.com/cgi-bin/purity.cgi

sample (Yes or No) questions on quiz;

Should income taxes be abolished?

Is government spending too high?

Should we relax immigration laws?

Is bombing civilians in an enemy country morally equivalent to murder? 

Should marijuana be legalized?

Does the U.S. intervene too much in other countries?

Should the Fed be abolished and replaced with free banking and privately-issued money?

As you can see, this is much more refined quiz, plus, it doesnt try to steer the responses one way or the other. The downside is, its 64 questions long, so it takes a bit longer to complete.

On the plus side, it "grades" your score.  A perfect score is 160.  I scored a 132!   Smiley Smiley

Tell us what your score is! 
  
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Don_G
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #25 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 12:13pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 22nd, 2017 at 10:31am:
When people are involved, opinions and ideas are not strictly limited to easily defined categories. Some people spend time trying to define and identify "pure" libertarians who fit neatly into a "libertarian" category. In fact, people are complex and there are tensions created by all ideas of political economy...

I myself like individual Liberty, and in order to secure it, I'm willing to ally myself with anyone who is over the halfway point between Liberty and tyranny. If that means having a law in my town that alcohol can't be sold on Sunday mornings, I can live with that... Don't try to tell me I can't drink alcohol at all though.


In a small way you have just done what I've been trying to get libertarians to do since I started on this forum. But it's not the first time any of you have done it. You all have from time to time. That is, you have shown that your personal preferences far overshadow your libertarian ideology.

You probably don't know what I'm talking about do you, and neither does the Chief because he seemed to miss it.

You simply took away the right of a store to sell liquor on a Sunday morning!

All these little errors add up to show that none of you would be true to the cause if you ever had the opportunity to test it.
  
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Don_G
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #26 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 12:34pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 22nd, 2017 at 11:26am:
The quiz is designed to instill the idea that the individual has sovereignty over himself, and thereby assumes that all others have sovereignty over themselves, as well. 

There are much better "libertarian purity" tests out there.   Heres one:

http://www.bcaplan.com/cgi-bin/purity.cgi

sample (Yes or No) questions on quiz;

Should income taxes be abolished?

Is government spending too high?

Should we relax immigration laws?

Is bombing civilians in an enemy country morally equivalent to murder? 

Should marijuana be legalized?

Does the U.S. intervene too much in other countries?

Should the Fed be abolished and replaced with free banking and privately-issued money?

As you can see, this is much more refined quiz, plus, it doesnt try to steer the responses one way or the other. The downside is, its 64 questions long, so it takes a bit longer to complete.

On the plus side, it "grades" your score.  A perfect score is 160.  I scored a 132!   Smiley Smiley

Tell us what your score is! 


I scored 31 and am quite happy with the category in which the quiz placed me.

The list of sample questions you gave us would be possible to answer as a true libertarian. But some of the questions are so ridiculous as to be impossible for any sane person to answer as a libertarian apparently should.

Quote:
160 points: Perfect! The world needs more like you.


there has to be at least 30 questions in that list that could never be answers in the positive for the libertarian test. You would have to be batshit crazy, so you've just narrowly escaped that category Chief.

The test is not designed as a real test as much as it's designed to bring out the very worst in angry people who have given up on logical answers to their predicament. It really does smell a lot like Trump!

I hope lots of the people on this board take the quiz! It's quite revealing of our level of discontent with society and an indication of a person's loss of hope. Really sick loaded questions in my opinion.

Take the test and then criticize me for my score.
  
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Jeff
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #27 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 4:24pm
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Don_G wrote on Sep 22nd, 2017 at 12:13pm:
In a small way you have just done what I've been trying to get libertarians to do since I started on this forum. But it's not the first time any of you have done it. You all have from time to time. That is, you have shown that your personal preferences far overshadow your libertarian ideology.


I prefer that everyone be free. That's my ideology.

Everything beyond that is of a practical nature concerning what are the best forms of government to secure that ideal, and what are the most practical policies that such a government should pursue so as to ensure individual liberty for all.
  
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Jeff
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #28 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 4:27pm
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Don_G wrote on Sep 22nd, 2017 at 12:13pm:
You simply took away the right of a store to sell liquor on a Sunday morning!


It wasn't me dummy, it's just that most of the people in my community think that's a good idea. I am free to move somewhere that permits Sunday morning sales of alcohol if I want to.

If my community passes an ordinance that prohibits alcohol completely, I'll take them to court... But they won't.

The idea that perfect individual liberty will exist somewhere is foolish and childish nonsense. In any community of people, accommodations will have to be made to the beliefs and desires of others.

If you want to blow up a town because they prohibit the Sunday morning sale of alcohol, you are just a childish fool.
  
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Jeff
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #29 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 4:33pm
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Don_G wrote on Sep 22nd, 2017 at 12:34pm:
Take the test and then criticize me for my score.
I made a perfect score! You lose again loser. Grin

We knew you as a barbarian collectivist tyrant long ago Donat. No testing was required.
  
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