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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support? (Read 976 times)
Morris
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #30 - Sep 26th, 2017 at 5:06am
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 22nd, 2017 at 11:26am:
The quiz is designed to instill the idea that the individual has sovereignty over himself, and thereby assumes that all others have sovereignty over themselves, as well. 

There are much better "libertarian purity" tests out there.   Heres one:

http://www.bcaplan.com/cgi-bin/purity.cgi

sample (Yes or No) questions on quiz;

Should income taxes be abolished?

Is government spending too high?

Should we relax immigration laws?

Is bombing civilians in an enemy country morally equivalent to murder? 

Should marijuana be legalized?

Does the U.S. intervene too much in other countries?

Should the Fed be abolished and replaced with free banking and privately-issued money?

As you can see, this is much more refined quiz, plus, it doesnt try to steer the responses one way or the other. The downside is, its 64 questions long, so it takes a bit longer to complete.

On the plus side, it "grades" your score.  A perfect score is 160.  I scored a 132!   Smiley Smiley

Tell us what your score is! 


Odd that Ayn Rand's picture is in the middle of the test, since she was a critic of libertarians and quite a supporter of "national defense".
« Last Edit: Sep 26th, 2017 at 10:54am by Morris »  
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Jeff
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #31 - Sep 26th, 2017 at 6:10am
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Morris wrote on Sep 26th, 2017 at 5:06am:
Odd that Ayn Rand's picture is in the middle of the test, since she was a critic of libertarians and quite a supporter of "national defense".
Murry Rothbard's picture is at the bottom... Some people think he was an anarchist instead of a libertarian... Maybe the two pics cancel each other out?

Different people have different ideas of how to maximize individual liberty. The idea of defending a country that is still mostly free sounds like a good way to help maximize individual liberty to me.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #32 - Sep 26th, 2017 at 11:25am
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Morris wrote on Sep 26th, 2017 at 5:06am:
Odd that Ayn Rand's picture is in the middle of the test, since she was a critic of libertarians and quite a supporter of "national defense".

I agree that Ayn Rand is not an ideal posterchild for libertarianism.  Why would being a supporter of "national defense" not consistent with libertarianism?
  
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Crystallas
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #33 - Sep 26th, 2017 at 12:50pm
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If someone gets you to think about the world differently, shouldn't matter what label they fall under. Think about those who default to labels, most of those people are in opposition to libertarianism and individualism.

Since I do get asked a bit, I'll finally answer. I have George Orwell in my sig because maybe 5% of what he wrote was really great for inspiring libertarian concepts in my own thought. But people have asked why I have him there, simple, I don't like compartmentalizing a person and all of their work as either for or against my ideals. Sorting through the works of any original (or simply original to me) for useful bits is a skill any long-time libertarian should have.  And just to shush bad assumptions, I really don't care about Animal Farm or 1984(I like them, just not that much), none of that put Orwell in my top 100. Orwell's journals on Burma, being a toryist that proved to many people that force and interventionism was not necessary to achieve goals, and his  writing style in general. There is nothing published by the man that I haven't read at least twice.  So there, now those who have asked me know, and yes, there isn't a criticism for Orwell that I haven't heard before. Like I said, I'm not endorsing 95% of his ideals, just the bit that I agree with and have influenced me. But you know, simple minded people and labels... LOL To them I'll get labeled just for one tiny reveal. Crys the humanist-traditionalist? LOL, nobody that knows me well, would ever buy it.

Partisanism in my book is highly flawed. Also, I don't like Ayn Rand as a whole, but she has made some excellent work that also suits our cause. It would be silly to dismiss 100% of her, when many early objectivists do come our way. Same with the Jeffersonians that come our way, despite it being confusion between libertarianism and constitutionalism. Milton Friedman gets credit for converting a lot to libertarianism, but no experienced and sane libertarian will take a high percentage of his work as gospel because we know better. That should not dismiss the influence.

Also, there is a matter of discourse as well. Not all libertarian theory is of the same study. Libertarianism is mostly a legal concept and foundation. One that has compatibilities with social, economic, and hierarchic models, but it is not all encompassing. Having a Libertarian Party greatly confuses this problem, because anyone new or who hasn't put much thought into it, will make an entire umbrella. But libertarian scholars have pointed this out repeatedly as misleading. Thus why you can have am Ayn Rand in the mix and still heavily disagree. Because her contributions strictly related to libertarianism are mainly socio-economic. Contributions most of us find more agreement with than disagreement.

It's a matter of crumbs, not buying a loaf of bread and saying this is the rest of my life. That would denote some kind of learning disability, sometimes that learning disability is masked by loyalty. None of which should be any standard for a person, especially those who can think for themselves.

Bottom line, libertarianism is one of the few ideologies that is supportive of truths to the point that it can find many influences, even outside of libertarianism itself. It's really the truth that matters, not the inverted pyramid (confirmation bias/taking a side in a debate and sticking to it no matter what/trying to fit the world to your ideals not the ideals to your world, etc).

Maybe I'll add Ayn Rand one day too? Probably not. But if she helped you rethink some of this stuff, then hey, that's cool.
  
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Don_G
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #34 - Sep 26th, 2017 at 12:59pm
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This sentence says it all Crysallis.

Quote:
It's really the truth that matters, not the inverted pyramid (confirmation bias/taking a side in a debate and sticking to it no matter what/trying to fit the world to your ideals not the ideals to your world, etc).


I'm trying to hold the libertarians' feet to the fire to stop them from trying to change the world to their ideals. And the reason why I do that is because the false libertarians aren't able to wrap their minds around the concept of what is possible and what is not. Also, libertarians who demand their rights at the expense of the rights of others. I can never work. Join the conversation!
  
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Crystallas
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #35 - Sep 26th, 2017 at 1:09pm
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Don_G wrote on Sep 26th, 2017 at 12:59pm:
This sentence says it all Crysallis.


I'm trying to hold the libertarians' feet to the fire to stop them from trying to change the world to their ideals. And the reason why I do that is because the false libertarians aren't able to wrap their minds around the concept of what is possible and what is not. Also, libertarians who demand their rights at the expense of the rights of others. I can never work. Join the conversation!



Nobody takes you seriously. Credibility matters. Plus you hardly understand libertarianism, yet run with myths without any interest to further expand yourself. Quite a bit of irony LOL!
  
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Don_G
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #36 - Sep 26th, 2017 at 1:14pm
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Crystallas wrote on Sep 26th, 2017 at 1:09pm:
Nobody takes you seriously. Credibility matters. Plus you hardly understand libertarianism, yet run with myths without any interest to further expand yourself. Quite a bit of irony LOL!


I understand libertarianism completely and I'm being taken seriously by more people on this forum than anyone else.

That's what sticks in your craw and causes your abusive behaviour toward me.

Actually, I took you seriously when I quoted that sentence. So now why not stop whining about my POV and get down to debating the details?
  
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ahhell
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #37 - Sep 26th, 2017 at 1:28pm
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Don_G wrote on Sep 26th, 2017 at 1:14pm:
I understand libertarianism completely and I'm being taken seriously by more people on this forum than anyone else.
I am curious what metric you've used to determine this. 
  
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Don_G
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #38 - Sep 26th, 2017 at 1:56pm
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ahhell wrote on Sep 26th, 2017 at 1:28pm:
I am curious what metric you've used to determine this. 


Look at all the conversations and try to figure out who is being addressed by others the most. You'll find it's mostly my topics on which people are posting and on which they show an interest.

Why don't you try to take my place? I can help you to be the most important person!
  
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ahhell
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #39 - Sep 26th, 2017 at 2:03pm
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If so, it could be related to your rather prolific posting and being the least libertarian poster which naturally engenders a more vociferous response from actual libertarians. 

How have you determined that you understand libertarianism "Completely"?
  
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