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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support? (Read 973 times)
Don_G
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #40 - Sep 26th, 2017 at 2:31pm
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ahhell wrote on Sep 26th, 2017 at 2:03pm:
If so, it could be related to your rather prolific posting and being the least libertarian poster which naturally engenders a more vociferous response from actual libertarians. 

How have you determined that you understand libertarianism "Completely"?


You're not real libertarians so there's nothing much to understand. I can call myself a libertarian because I don't dwell on the impossibiilities of your pseudo-libertarian wanderings.

Every time one of you speak up with your selfish and impossible ideas, you're going to hear from me. I'll give you a real and possible alternative. Try me out!

burnsred and I are making some progress. Follow along and try to keep up. Or even have something to say if you are capable of understanding the conversation.

Our conversations will furnish the basis on which to form something real from the jumbled mess this forum is right now.
  
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Jeff
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #41 - Sep 26th, 2017 at 5:17pm
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Don_G wrote on Sep 26th, 2017 at 2:31pm:
You're not real libertarians so there's nothing much to understand. I can call myself a libertarian because I don't dwell on the impossibiilities of your pseudo-libertarian wanderings.
You are almost as delusional as the lizard... And almost as smart... And almost as witty... But I bet you aren't nearly as tall!

Real Dragons are HUGE!
  
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Jeff
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #42 - Sep 26th, 2017 at 5:19pm
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Don_G wrote on Sep 26th, 2017 at 2:31pm:
Every time one of you speak up with your selfish and impossible ideas, you're going to hear from me.
"God save us all" used to be a fairly common expression.

Now it's probably forbidden "hate speech".
  
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Morris
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #43 - Oct 2nd, 2017 at 3:57am
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 26th, 2017 at 11:25am:
I agree that Ayn Rand is not an ideal posterchild for libertarianism.  Why would being a supporter of "national defense" not consistent with libertarianism?

In her case:
Quote:
Dictatorship nations are outlaws. Any free nation had the right to invade Nazi Germany and, today, has the right to invade Soviet Russia, Cuba or any other slave pen. Whether a free nation chooses to do so or not is a matter of its own self-interest, not of respect for the nonexistent “rights” of gang rulers. It is not a free nation’s duty to liberate other nations at the price of self-sacrifice, but a free nation has the right to do it, when and if it so chooses.
http://anthemfoundation.org/for-professors/collectivized-rights.html

Such invasions are only waged by massive expanding the size of the invading state (a good deal permanently), massively violating the rights of innocents residing in the invaded state, and have unintended consequences.  Her avid followers are neocons. One example:
https://ari.aynrand.org/issues/foreign-policy/self-defense-and-free-trade/Innoce...

Since Milton Friedman's picture is also shown in the quiz, the following is relevant:
  Quote:
Reason: Do you consider yourself in the libertarian mainstream on foreign policy issues?

Friedman: I don't believe that the libertarian philosophy dictates a foreign policy...
...
Reason: What did you think about the Gulf War?

Friedman: I always had misgivings about the Gulf War, but I never came to a firm decision...

In that interview, he also said he didn't regret the significant role he had in developing the withholding tax to help finance the US government during WWII.
http://reason.com/archives/1995/06/01/best-of-both-worlds/5


« Last Edit: Oct 2nd, 2017 at 12:32pm by Morris »  
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SkyChief
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #44 - Oct 2nd, 2017 at 12:17pm
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Morris wrote on Oct 2nd, 2017 at 3:57am:
Since the Milton Friedman's picture is also shown in the quiz, the following is relevant:
 
In that interview, he also said he didn't regret the significant role he had in developing the withholding tax to help finance the US government during WWII.

Thanks for pointing that out, Morris.  It demonstrates that even "principled" libertarians can be anti-libertarian in practice.  (Friedman's War Withholding Tax)

Friedman was also an advocate of the Federal Reserve central bank because he believed in "controlled" inflation vs natural free-market inflation.   

Very anti-libertarian!
  
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Don_G
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #45 - Oct 2nd, 2017 at 12:25pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 3:32pm:
Now, now,,  let's not get emotional.  Let's give some other people a chance to offer some strategies which libertarians can take to gain support.

You didn't like mine. I didn't like yours.  No surprises there. 

The horse you and I have been beating is quite dead.   Smiley

My horse is a libertarian horse that isn't disqualified from the race before it even gets to the starting gate. You're not even entering a horse in the race.

I'm betting on mine until you get a horse in the race as an alternative. Others too!
  
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Jeff
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #46 - Oct 2nd, 2017 at 6:19pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 2nd, 2017 at 12:17pm:
Thanks for pointing that out, Morris.  It demonstrates that even "principled" libertarians can be anti-libertarian in practice. 
That's about as likely as "principled" communists being anti-Communist capitalists in practice...
  
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Don_G
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #47 - Oct 2nd, 2017 at 6:47pm
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The strategy libertarians need to take to gain support is to put forward an agenda of items that are possible and could be accomplished.

Claiming rights for themselves at the expense of rights for the majority is never going to succee in anything but being laughed at.

Seriously kids,  I'm just trying to helpl

Health care for all the people at an affordable cost. What a great opportunity for libertarians to make their mark. With government it's possible and it's exactly consistent with libertarianism of providing and protecting rights!
  
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Jeff
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #48 - Oct 2nd, 2017 at 6:55pm
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Don_G wrote on Oct 2nd, 2017 at 6:47pm:
The strategy libertarians need to take to gain support is to put forward an agenda of items that are possible and could be accomplished.

I agree. Limited government controlled by law to protect Human Rights equally throughout America.

Anyone against it, raise your hand and call out your name.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: What's the best strategy for libertarians to take to gain support?
Reply #49 - Oct 3rd, 2017 at 9:07am
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Don_G wrote on Oct 2nd, 2017 at 6:47pm:
Claiming rights for themselves at the expense of rights for the majority is never going to succee in anything but being laughed at.

Seriously kids,  I'm just trying to helpl

You're no help because you ignore the fact that libertarianism is all about individual rights and responsibility. Rights of the majority is something you invented to forward your collectivist/statist ideas. A group of people cannot have rights!  LOL
  
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