Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Poll
Poll Question: Are you a minimalist?
bars   pie

I'm a libertarian    
  3 (75.0%)
I'm a minimalist libertarian    
  0 (0.0%)
Not a libertarian    
  1 (25.0%)




Total votes: 4
« Created by: Land of Freedom on: Sep 26th, 2017 at 6:16pm »
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 7 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian? (Read 469 times)
burnsred
Libertarian Senior Member
****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 326
Joined: Sep 11th, 2017
Re: How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Reply #10 - Sep 27th, 2017 at 7:51pm
Print Post  

Quote:
I didn't think there was much undue regulation of alcohol in your country.
As opposed to due regulations?  Could you explain that in libertarian terms?
Quote:
There's a lot more in mine. I'm not really sure if your country could benefit with more or even less? I'm always socially aware of the ease of minors obtaining alcohol being something we have to monitor closely. Are you? Or are you for the wide open libertarian approach of letting minors have anything they want and in unlimited quantities?
I'm certainly not for the approach of calling 21-year olds "minors" for the purpose of alcohol consumption as U.S. law does. 

My take is that libertarianism is for adults, not children.  But if parents serve their kids alcohol, I would not expect that to be a crime.  If they serve them an excessive amount that harms them I would call that a crime.  But the same would apply to excessive amounts of orange juice.  It's the abusiveness, not the evil of one particular substance.

Quote:
As for drugs, your country advertized pharmas on the media but Canada doesn't allow it. While your country allows it, it's full of dire warnings on what the particular drug can do to you. Many including warning of death.

The difference to explore is this: Patients go their doctors in Canada and don't try to tell the doctors which med to prescribe. Many of those ads in the US are asking people to tell their doctors that they want 'x' drug.
So you prefer patients walk into doctor's offices as information-free as possible? 
Quote:
On reason I like our system better is that it keeps prices down. Doctors know what works and shouldn't trying to sell the newest designer drugs to patients.
What if the newer drugs are better?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating that drug companies advertise or don't advertise or that patients ask for advertised drugs or don't or that doctors use old or use new drugs.  My take is of course that people should be free to choose those things because the alternative is too horrible to contemplate:  the initiation of force to prevent them from making their own  healthcare choices.

Quote:
Oh, and our medical experience is better than yours. (insurance wise speaking on 'expeience'. And our life expectancy is higher.  and our child mortality rates are lower.
and your border is more secure so you don't have hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens clogging your health care system.

Still, your wait times are a scandal even in the socialized medicine world.  Because of them, people like Danny Williams drive all the way to Florida for medical care unavailable in his own province.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 4175
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Reply #11 - Sep 27th, 2017 at 8:19pm
Print Post  
burnsred wrote on Sep 27th, 2017 at 7:51pm:
As opposed to due regulations?  Could you explain that in libertarian terms?


Sure. A libertarian wants his children to be safe from the influence of alcohol. No regs could mean that children could take it to school and share it around. Unless you have some ideas on how a libertarian could safeguard agains that happening. And really, that's just one of many!

Quote:
I'm certainly not for the approach of calling 21-year olds "minors" for the purpose of alcohol consumption as U.S. law does. 


Me either. What age would be appropriate for you. And more important, what would being a minor mean to a libertarian such as yourself?

Quote:
My take is that libertarianism is for adults, not children.  But if parents serve their kids alcohol, I would not expect that to be a crime.  If they serve them an excessive amount that harms them I would call that a crime.  But the same would apply to excessive amounts of orange juice.  It's the abusiveness, not the evil of one particular substance.


Heh! Abusing the amount of orange juice served to a child? I'm with you on parents giving their children alcohol, within your paramaters. LIbertarianism has to work for children too.

Quote:
So you prefer patients walk into doctor's offices as information-free as possible? 
What if the newer drugs are better?


Certainly not!
If the newer drugs are better then I trust my doctor to prescribe them for me. If not then the cheaper generics are what I expect to have prescribed. And the good part is, doctors do. In the US a doctor can make more money on a Catscan than on an x-ray and so prescribe the former when the latter serves the purpose and need. Canada's health care managers keep a close watch on doctors for us! They better because it's part of keeping the cost down. It's about half per capita of the US's.

Quote:
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating that drug companies advertise or don't advertise or that patients ask for advertised drugs or don't or that doctors use old or use new drugs.  My take is of course that people should be free to choose those things because the alternative is too horrible to contemplate:  the initiation of force to prevent them from making their own  healthcare choices.


Why in hell would you think that Canadians aren't allowed to choose the best? They can choose an MRI instead of an x-ray too but they will be told they'll be paying the difference if the doctor doesn't deem it necessary.

Quote:
and your border is more secure so you don't have hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens clogging your health care system.


Actually the truth is that we have more per capita right now because the ones the US is excluding are coming to Canada in large numbers. I'm all for it.

Quote:
Still, your wait times are a scandal even in the socialized medicine world.  Because of them, people like Danny Williams drive all the way to Florida for medical care unavailable in his own province.



No, our wait times aren't a scandal and we're not rated lower for longer wait times. We're still rated quite a lot higher than the US.

If Danny Williams went to the US then he decided to not wait for treatment. If he has millions he can do that. And I don't mind because it lowers our costs.

Keeping in mind that our medical experience outcome rates are better than yours.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
burnsred
Libertarian Senior Member
****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 326
Joined: Sep 11th, 2017
Re: How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Reply #12 - Sep 27th, 2017 at 8:39pm
Print Post  
Quote:
As opposed to due regulations?  Could you explain that in libertarian terms?


Sure. A libertarian wants his children to be safe from the influence of alcohol. No regs could mean that children could take it to school and share it around. Unless you have some ideas on how a libertarian could safeguard agains that happening. And really, that's just one of many!
I don't know of any system that safeguards against children bringing alcohol to school and sharing it.  We did it when I was a kid and in a junior high I worked at it happened several times. 

Quote:
Quote:
I'm certainly not for the approach of calling 21-year olds "minors" for the purpose of alcohol consumption as U.S. law does.

Me either. What age would be appropriate for you. And more important, what would being a minor mean to a libertarian such as yourself?
Eighteen if we have to choose an arbitrary number, which unfortunately, we do.  There may be a reasonable way through some kind of petition for a younger person to become emancipated.  I'm not sure minors would be treated much differently under a libertarian system than under the current U.S. or Canadian systems.  Parental rights would be much more respected, of course.

Quote:
Quote:
My take is that libertarianism is for adults, not children.  But if parents serve their kids alcohol, I would not expect that to be a crime.  If they serve them an excessive amount that harms them I would call that a crime.  But the same would apply to excessive amounts of orange juice.  It's the abusiveness, not the evil of one particular substance.

Heh! Abusing the amount of orange juice served to a child? I'm with you on parents giving their children alcohol, within your paramaters. LIbertarianism has to work for children too.
Good, good.  I hope you don't have any equivalent of our out of control Children's Protective Services (or various other names from state to state).

Quote:
Quote:
So you prefer patients walk into doctor's offices as information-free as possible?
What if the newer drugs are better?


Certainly not!
If the newer drugs are better then I trust my doctor to prescribe them for me.
Should every Canadian trust every doctor, or did you happen upon a really good one?

Quote:
If not then the cheaper generics are what I expect to have prescribed. And the good part is, doctors do. In the US a doctor can make more money on a Catscan than on an x-ray and so prescribe the former when the latter serves the purpose and need. Canada's health care managers keep a close watch on doctors for us! They better because it's part of keeping the cost down. It's about half per capita of the US's.
Closed border do work wonders, don't they?  Just the thousands of pregnant women crossing our borders at the onset of labor is enough to ensure that our system is strained.  Good news is that it is our illegals and our welfare dolees that die young and don't seek health care until an emergency arises that bring our statistics down.  Take them out of the picture and our health stats are the best in the world.

Quote:
Quote:
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating that drug companies advertise or don't advertise or that patients ask for advertised drugs or don't or that doctors use old or use new drugs.  My take is of course that people should be free to choose those things because the alternative is too horrible to contemplate:  the initiation of force to prevent them from making their own  healthcare choices.


Why in hell would you think that Canadians aren't allowed to choose the best? They can choose an MRI instead of an x-ray too but they will be told they'll be paying the difference if the doctor doesn't deem it necessary.
The choice I spoke of was the choice to advertise or not to advertise medicines or to use new drugs or old.  I thought we were talking in generalities about libertarianism, not comparing the Canadian system to the U.S.  Neither system is libertarian in the slightest.
Quote:
Quote:
and your border is more secure so you don't have hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens clogging your health care system.


Actually the truth is that we have more per capita right now because the ones the US is excluding are coming to Canada in large numbers. I'm all for it.
The U.S. is excluding people?  Where in the world is that happening?  Certainly not on our southern border.

Quote:
Quote:
Still, your wait times are a scandal even in the socialized medicine world.  Because of them, people like Danny Williams drive all the way to Florida for medical care unavailable in his own province.

No, our wait times aren't a scandal and we're not rated lower for longer wait times. We're still rated quite a lot higher than the US.

If Danny Williams went to the US then he decided to not wait for treatment. If he has millions he can do that. And I don't mind because it lowers our costs.

Keeping in mind that our medical experience outcome rates are better than yours.
You mean that according to the statistics that your government medical services compile, your government medical services are superior to ours?  I wonder why that didn't persuade Premier Williams?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 4175
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Reply #13 - Sep 27th, 2017 at 8:55pm
Print Post  
Quote:
You mean that according to the statistics that your government medical services compile, your government medical services are superior to ours?  I wonder why that didn't persuade Premier Williams?


According to the WHO. I told you why Williams decided that he needed quicker care. You can get any kind of care you want  the next day if you have the bucks.

Take a break, you're starting to ge a bit contrary and it's  starting to cost me a lot more time answering questions to which you already know the answers.

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/us-politics/us-supreme-court-gives-g...;
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
burnsred
Libertarian Senior Member
****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 326
Joined: Sep 11th, 2017
Re: How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Reply #14 - Sep 27th, 2017 at 9:13pm
Print Post  
Quote:
According to the WHO. I told you why Williams decided that he needed quicker care. You can get any kind of care you want  the next day if you have the bucks.
In Canada, you need the big bucks for that.  In the states, he got surgery at Mount Sinai.  As you can see from their website:

https://www.msmc.com/patient-info/billing/

Mount Sinai accepts all the payment methods commonly available to Americans, including medicare, medicaid, PPO, HMO, managed care, insurance and self-pay.  So he came from Canada to get what wealthy, middle-class and even poor Americans are able to get. 

If it is the inequality between Canada's and the U.S. health care system that you are blaming on the wealthy, not to worry!   Our statists in the U.S. are working hard to bring our system down to the level of Canada's.  Unless we adopt libertarianism in this country, my children will likely not be able to go to a hospital of the quality of Mount Sinai and Canadians wanting good health care will have no place to run either.

Unless they are congressmen who always exempt themselves from regulations on getting good health care.


Was that link about the Muslim ban supposed to show something about our current discussion or did you include it accidentally?

EDIT:  Ok, you meant it in response to my "the U.S. is excluding people" question, right.

Again, not to worry.  You can't walk a hundred feet in the U.S. without seeing dozens of Muslims.  They are hardly excluded.

You should visit the U.S.  I'll be happy to play host if ou come in early November.  I'll drive you around different voting precincts so you can pull that straight Libertarian Party ticket.








  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 4175
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Reply #15 - Sep 27th, 2017 at 10:39pm
Print Post  
burnsred wrote on Sep 27th, 2017 at 9:13pm:
In Canada, you need the big bucks for that.  In the states, he got surgery at Mount Sinai.  As you can see from their website:

https://www.msmc.com/patient-info/billing/

Mount Sinai accepts all the payment methods commonly available to Americans, including medicare, medicaid, PPO, HMO, managed care, insurance and self-pay.  So he came from Canada to get what wealthy, middle-class and even poor Americans are able to get. 

And he paid something between 25k and 50k. Good for him. He would have got it for free in Canada.

[quote]If it is the inequality between Canada's and the U.S. health care system that you are blaming on the wealthy, not to worry!


The World Health Organization reates ours much better.

Quote:
   Our statists in the U.S. are working hard to bring our system down to the level of Canada's.  Unless we adopt libertarianism in this country, my children will likely not be able to go to a hospital of the quality of Mount Sinai and Canadians wanting good health care will have no place to run either.


Whoever is working to fix your health care system, it's to bring it up to the standard of Canada's at least. (ref.WHO) I doubt it will ever get close to France's, which is the best in the world.


Quote:
Was that link about the Muslim ban supposed to show something about our current discussion or did you include it accidentally?


Must have been accidentally.

Quote:
EDIT:  Ok, you meant it in response to my "the U.S. is excluding people" question, right.


the US is excluding refugees. it's in the news all the time.

Quote:
Again, not to worry.  You can't walk a hundred feet in the U.S. without seeing dozens of Muslims.  They are hardly excluded.


That kind of comment is for Jeff. I won't tolerate it without coming back in an insulting way because it only deserves that. Stop it with me!

Quote:
You should visit the U.S.  I'll be happy to play host if ou come in early November.  I'll drive you around different voting precincts so you can pull that straight Libertarian Party ticket.




Same as the previous comment.

Our health care system is rated quite a bit better than yours by the WHO. Yours is in crisis and ours isn't. We pay about half what your country pays per capita for our health care.

I'm not interested in making any more comparisons between ours and yours right now. Yours just happens to be the worst of all the modern Western wealthy countries. It's one better than Cuba's. You make me think you don't pay attention to the news! You do know the big fight is over 'something' don't you?

Like I said, take a break.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
burnsred
Libertarian Senior Member
****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 326
Joined: Sep 11th, 2017
Re: How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Reply #16 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 10:33am
Print Post  
Quote:
And he paid something between 25k and 50k. Good for him. He would have got it for free in Canada.
It isn't free.  The taxpayers pay for it.  Assuming that he lived long enough to get it.

If he had been born in America (or immigrated as so many do) his insurance or government insurance would have paid for it.  I recently had literally hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of high quality treatment from one of the best hospitals in the world right here in my hometown of Houston.  Out of pocket expenses were less than one thousand dollars.

Quote:
If it is the inequality between Canada's and the U.S. health care system that you are blaming on the wealthy, not to worry!


The World Health Organization reates ours much better.
The he should have stayed in Canada reading the WHO report while hoping his number came up before . . . well, before his number came up?

Quote:
Quote:
   Our statists in the U.S. are working hard to bring our system down to the level of Canada's.  Unless we adopt libertarianism in this country, my children will likely not be able to go to a hospital of the quality of Mount Sinai and Canadians wanting good health care will have no place to run either.


Whoever is working to fix your health care system, it's to bring it up to the standard of Canada's at least. (ref.WHO) I doubt it will ever get close to France's, which is the best in the world.
The architect of our current "improved" health system said the purpose was to "avoid transparency" in order to take advantage of "the stupidity of the American voter"


Quote:
EDIT:  Ok, you meant it in response to my "the U.S. is excluding people" question, right.


the US is excluding refugees. it's in the news all the time.
I know what the news says.  I would like to think they were an unbiased source of real information.  But too often what they "report" is in direct conflict with what I see with my own eyes.  I see that we have no shortage of Muslims in this country whatsoever.

Quote:
Quote:
Again, not to worry.  You can't walk a hundred feet in the U.S. without seeing dozens of Muslims.  They are hardly excluded.


That kind of comment is for Jeff. I won't tolerate it without coming back in an insulting way because it only deserves that. Stop it with me!
It is a fact that contradicts your claim. 

If you want to criticize countries for excluding Muslims, your first targets should be countries like Saudi Arabia, Dubai, United Arab Emirates and Jordon.

Quote:
Our health care system is rated quite a bit better than yours by the WHO. Yours is in crisis and ours isn't. We pay about half what your country pays per capita for our health care.

I'm not interested in making any more comparisons between ours and yours right now. Yours just happens to be the worst of all the modern Western wealthy countries. It's one better than Cuba's. You make me think you don't pay attention to the news! You do know the big fight is over 'something' don't you?
Don't the statement I blued and the statement I purpled contradict each other?

Sure, the fight is over something.  It's over one party's desire to have government take over a large chunk of the U.S. economy in order to breed dependence.  Our health care has worsened under Obamacare, particularly when it comes to insurance costs for the average person. 

Quote:
Like I said, take a break.
I'm not sure what you expect from me, Don.  If you want to compare the socialist Canadian system to the not-yet-quite-as-socialist American system, feel free.  But when you get your facts wrong, I'm not going to pretend you're right to make you feel better.  Our system is slightly more free and therefore is only slightly more better.  But yet it is better enough that thousands if not millions of Canadians vote for it with their feet every year.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 4175
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Reply #17 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 12:45pm
Print Post  
burnsred wrote on Sep 27th, 2017 at 9:13pm:
In Canada, you need the big bucks for that.  In the states, he got surgery at Mount Sinai.  As you can see from their website:

https://www.msmc.com/patient-info/billing/

Mount Sinai accepts all the payment methods commonly available to Americans, including medicare, medicaid, PPO, HMO, managed care, insurance and self-pay.  So he came from Canada to get what wealthy, middle-class and even poor Americans are able to get. 


And he paid 25k to 50 k for it. He could have got it for free in Canada. All Canadians do. 

Quote:
If it is the inequality between Canada's and the U.S. health care system that you are blaming on the wealthy, not to worry! 


I don't know of any inequalities that aren't biased toward Canada's health care. We 'are' rated quite a bit better by the WHO.

Quote:
 Our statists in the U.S. are working hard to bring our system down to the level of Canada's.  Unless we adopt libertarianism in this country, my children will likely not be able to go to a hospital of the quality of Mount Sinai and Canadians wanting good health care will have no place to run either.


Again, it's 'up' to the level of Canada's. (the WHO?) You can't ignore that and continue to say that Canadians will have no place to run. Danny Williams ran to the US to demonstrate his political views in part, but also to get today what he would have had to perhaps wait a few days to get in Canada.

Any discussion on comparing US/Canada health care right now is really not in your best interests, unless you are trying to ignore the hopeless mess your health care is suffering. It's just the facts! Maybe after it's fixed it will be as good or even better! You may someday replace France's as the best! Although I doubt your country is ever going to choose a route that would get you there.

Quote:
Unless they are congressmen who always exempt themselves from regulations on getting good health care.


Your corrupt government problems are yours.


Quote:
Was that link about the Muslim ban supposed to show something about our current discussion or did you include it accidentally?
  most likely accidental?

EDIT:  Ok, you meant it in response to my "the U.S. is excluding people" question, right.

Again, not to worry.  You can't walk a hundred feet in the U.S. without seeing dozens of Muslims.  They are hardly excluded.

You should visit the U.S.  I'll be happy to play host if ou come in early November.  I'll drive you around different voting precincts so you can pull that straight Libertarian Party ticket.








[/quote]
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 4175
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Reply #18 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 1:02pm
Print Post  
burnsred wrote on Sep 28th, 2017 at 10:33am:
It isn't free.  The taxpayers pay for it.  Assuming that he lived long enough to get it.


So I guess he paid twice!

Quote:
If he had been born in America (or immigrated as so many do) his insurance or government insurance would have paid for it.  I recently had literally hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of high quality treatment from one of the best hospitals in the world right here in my hometown of Houston.  Out of pocket expenses were less than one thousand dollars.


Or if he wasn't covered by gov or an employer he would have paid a high price for insurance. In many cases, too high to afford and that's why you have so many people going without and probably dying for lack of.

Quote:
The he should have stayed in Canada reading the WHO report while hoping his number came up before . . . well, before his number came up?


We don't try to stop people like him. It's our libertarian bent.

Quote:
The architect of our current "improved" health system said the purpose was to "avoid transparency" in order to take advantage of "the stupidity of the American voter"


NO idea? I think it's a case of 'just' enough Republicans not accepting the propose plans that would raise the cost of your health care. It gets all the others off the hook when it continues to fail. Everybody knows that some variations in Obamacare is the only way out of your mess. Your CBO keeps on blowing the whistle on the greedy capitalist plans that would increase your uninsured by 30 million,  or whatever?


Quote:
I know what the news says.  I would like to think they were an unbiased source of real information.  But too often what they "report" is in direct conflict with what I see with my own eyes.  I see that we have no shortage of Muslims in this country whatsoever.


????

Quote:
It is a fact that contradicts your claim. 

If you want to criticize countries for excluding Muslims, your first targets should be countries like Saudi Arabia, Dubai, United Arab Emirates and Jordon.

Don't the statement I blued and the statement I purpled contradict each other?


They might but I don't consider it all that important. You could elaborate if you want to dwell on it.

Quote:
Sure, the fight is over something.  It's over one party's desire to have government take over a large chunk of the U.S. economy in order to breed dependence.  Our health care has worsened under Obamacare, particularly when it comes to insurance costs for the average person.


Your health care is a mess and it needs to be fixed. I would say that following the path of the rest of the world is the only way to go. All the best plans in the world are universal government run health care. 

Quote:
I'm not sure what you expect from me, Don.  If you want to compare the socialist Canadian system to the not-yet-quite-as-socialist American system, feel free.  But when you get your facts wrong, I'm not going to pretend you're right to make you feel better.  Our system is slightly more free and therefore is only slightly more better.  But yet it is better enough that thousands if not millions of Canadians vote for it with their feet every year.


I think that you may be the only one on this board that is happy and satisfied with your country's condition and it's government. All the others are continuously crying the blues over it.

Canadians seem to be relatively happy with ours, although the rabid right do complain about our Liberal government. Our government changes as the pendulum swings.

Facts are facts burnsred! I think we feel a lot more free right now than Americans!

the happiest people in the world are the people in the more socialist leaning Scandinavian countries. I think that's because they are truly libertarian, not pseudo-libertarian.

THEIR FIRST PRIORITY IS IN HONOURING THE RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS OF ALL THEIR PEOPLE.

Not just the 1% or 2%, and that in a nutshell is your country's biggest problem to think about!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
burnsred
Libertarian Senior Member
****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 326
Joined: Sep 11th, 2017
Re: How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Reply #19 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 1:14pm
Print Post  
Quote:
burnsred wrote Today at 10:33am:
It isn't free.  The taxpayers pay for it.  Assuming that he lived long enough to get it.


So I guess he paid twice!
Indeed he did.  Once for a system that failed to meet his needs and once for a system that succeeded in meeting his needs.

Quote:
Quote:
If he had been born in America (or immigrated as so many do) his insurance or government insurance would have paid for it.  I recently had literally hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of high quality treatment from one of the best hospitals in the world right here in my hometown of Houston.  Out of pocket expenses were less than one thousand dollars.


Or if he wasn't covered by gov or an employer he would have paid a high price for insurance. In many cases, too high to afford and that's why you have so many people going without and probably dying for lack of.
I'm sure such people would be well-publicized since the U.S. media is so eager to have our medical system socialized.  Can you provide me with some names?

Quote:
Quote:
The he should have stayed in Canada reading the WHO report while hoping his number came up before . . . well, before his number came up?


We don't try to stop people like him. It's our libertarian bent.
You're so libertarian that you don't force people to die on waiting lists by forbidding them from coming to the states?  Mighty libertarian of you alright . . .

Quote:
Quote:
The architect of our current "improved" health system said the purpose was to "avoid transparency" in order to take advantage of "the stupidity of the American voter"


NO idea? I think it's a case of 'just' enough Republicans not accepting the propose plans that would raise the cost of your health care. It gets all the others off the hook when it continues to fail. Everybody knows that some variations in Obamacare is the only way out of your mess. Your CBO keeps on blowing the whistle on the greedy capitalist plans that would increase your uninsured by 30 million,  or whatever?
I think you typed that too fast, it seems a little disjointed.  Or I could very well be a dotard who doesn't quite understand it.  I gather it's some kind of partisan argument about Dems Vs. GOP, yes?  I don't have a dog in that fight.


Quote:
Quote:
I know what the news says.  I would like to think they were an unbiased source of real information.  But too often what they "report" is in direct conflict with what I see with my own eyes.  I see that we have no shortage of Muslims in this country whatsoever.


????
You stated that the news is telling you that the U.S. "excludes Muslims."  There are 3.3 Muslims in the United States.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_States

So it is inaccurate to say that "the U.S. excludes Muslims."


Quote:
Quote:
It is a fact that contradicts your claim.

If you want to criticize countries for excluding Muslims, your first targets should be countries like Saudi Arabia, Dubai, United Arab Emirates and Jordon.

Don't the statement I blued and the statement I purpled contradict each other?


They might but I don't consider it all that important. You could elaborate if you want to dwell on it.
It's not important that you contradicted yourself.  But countries like Saudi Arabia, Dubai, United Arab Emirates and Jordon excluding Muslims is.  Any comment?

Quote:
Quote:
Sure, the fight is over something.  It's over one party's desire to have government take over a large chunk of the U.S. economy in order to breed dependence.  Our health care has worsened under Obamacare, particularly when it comes to insurance costs for the average person.


Your health care is a mess and it needs to be fixed. I would say that following the path of the rest of the world is the only way to go. All the best plans in the world are universal government run health care.
Our ability to rescue the rest of the world repeatedly did not stem from following the rest of the world.

Quote:
Quote:
I'm not sure what you expect from me, Don.  If you want to compare the socialist Canadian system to the not-yet-quite-as-socialist American system, feel free.  But when you get your facts wrong, I'm not going to pretend you're right to make you feel better.  Our system is slightly more free and therefore is only slightly more better.  But yet it is better enough that thousands if not millions of Canadians vote for it with their feet every year.

Canadians seem to be relatively happy with ours, although the rabid right do complain about our Liberal government. Our government changes as the pendulum swings.

Facts are facts burnsred! I think we feel a lot more free right now than Americans!

the happiest people in the world are the people in the more socialist leaning Scandinavian countries. I think that's because they are truly libertarian, not pseudo-libertarian.
But, again - we get those "facts" from the governments who claim to be making their people happy.  In the Soviet Union the leaders would brag about winning 99 to 100 percent of the vote every election.

Quote:
THEIR FIRST PRIORITY IS IN HONOURING THE RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS OF ALL THEIR PEOPLE.

Not just the 1% or 2%, and that in a nutshell is your country's biggest problem to think about!
I think you are using the word "freedom" very differently than do your fellow libertarians.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 7
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy