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Poll Question: Are you a minimalist?
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I'm a libertarian    
  3 (75.0%)
I'm a minimalist libertarian    
  0 (0.0%)
Not a libertarian    
  1 (25.0%)




Total votes: 4
« Created by: Land of Freedom on: Sep 26th, 2017 at 6:16pm »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian? (Read 477 times)
Don_G
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Re: How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Reply #20 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 1:46pm
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burnsred wrote on Sep 28th, 2017 at 1:14pm:
Indeed he did.  Once for a system that failed to meet his needs and once for a system that succeeded in meeting his needs.


The system didn't fail to meet his needs.

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I'm sure such people would be well-publicized since the U.S. media is so eager to have our medical system socialized.  Can you provide me with some names?


Socializing your system is the only answer for health care that looks after all the people at an affordable price. If you don't want that then you're free to object to it.

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You're so libertarian that you don't force people to die on waiting lists by forbidding them from coming to the states?  Mighty libertarian of you alright . . .


It's not anti! No snark please.

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I think you typed that too fast, it seems a little disjointed.  Or I could very well be a dotard who doesn't quite understand it.  I gather it's some kind of partisan argument about Dems Vs. GOP, yes?  I don't have a dog in that fight.


I'm not an American. It's more about social responsibility than lack of.


Quote:
You stated that the news is telling you that the U.S. "excludes Muslims."  There are 3.3 Muslims in the United States.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_States

So it is inaccurate to say that "the U.S. excludes Muslims."


No, I didn't bring Muslims into the conversation, I said refugees.


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It's not important that you contradicted yourself.  But countries like Saudi Arabia, Dubai, United Arab Emirates and Jordon excluding Muslims is.  Any comment?


Those countries are likely excluding refugees too.

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Our ability to rescue the rest of the world repeatedly did not stem from following the rest of the world.


If you think you rescued the world then thank you for the rescue. I don't see that as having anything to do with the obvious need to accept universal government health care for your people. There doesn't seem to be any other way that can be anywhere nearly as successful. Even Singapore finally accepted it!

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But, again - we get those "facts" from the governments who claim to be making their people happy.  In the Soviet Union the leaders would brag about winning 99 to 100 percent of the vote every election.


You get those facts sometimes from people in your own country. Isn't it a bit silly to be trying to make out that your country isn't all screwed up and very unhappy with government?
There is  no Soviet Union but in Russia the actual truth is that Putin's popularity is always somewhere around or above 80%! Is that what you meant?

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I think you are using the word "freedom" very differently than do your fellow libertarians.


We should talk about that accusation in detail! I think you are suggesting that I advocate compromising the freedom of a few for the greater good of the masses. It's about US attitudes toward guns, dogs, unions, workers, property, and nearly everything else where rights and freedoms are questioned as to legitimacy.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Reply #21 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 2:13pm
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Don_G wrote on Sep 28th, 2017 at 12:45pm:
And he paid 25k to 50 k for it. He could have got it for free in Canada. All Canadians do. 

Free stuff is nice.  Except for the people who have to pay for all that free stuff -  not so nice for them.

Ask me why!
  
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Don_G
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Re: How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Reply #22 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 2:24pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 28th, 2017 at 2:13pm:
Free stuff is nice.  Except for the people who have to pay for all that free stuff -  not so nice for them.

Ask me why!


We already know why. You want to keep all your money so you invent a tax scheme that you think will allow you to escape paying taxes.

Your country depends on you to pay your share. All other countries have basically come to terms with taxation. The US should do likewise.

Your corruption has made you the laughing stock of the world. You're all complaining and bitching about the mess your country is in but you don't have the slightest idea on how to fix it. You should tell burnsred it's the shits, he's still pretending it's the greatest.

Socially responsible capitalism is the answer. And it means a move to the left. That's a turn to real libertarianism. Ask me about it.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Reply #23 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 2:36pm
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Don_G wrote on Sep 28th, 2017 at 2:24pm:
We already know why. You want to keep all your money so you invent a tax scheme that you think will allow you to escape paying taxes.

Your country depends on you to pay your share. All other countries have basically come to terms with taxation. The US should do likewise.

LOL. Since when has the US ever looked to other countries for libertarian ideas? 

We wrote the effin' book, Don_G.   People from all over the world risk life and limb to sneak into the US. Why do you suppose that is?  Because they want a bigger government and higher taxes?   I doubt it.  More likely they're fleeing the tyranny and high taxation in their native country.

Thinkey thinkey.   Wink
  
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Don_G
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Re: How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Reply #24 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 3:37pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 28th, 2017 at 2:36pm:
LOL. Since when has the US ever looked to other countries for libertarian ideas? 

We wrote the effin' book, Don_G.   People from all over the world risk life and limb to sneak into the US. Why do you suppose that is?  Because they want a bigger government and higher taxes?   I doubt it.  More likely they're fleeing the tyranny and high taxation in their native country.

Thinkey thinkey.   Wink


The US invented the term, 'libertarian'. Other countries just use terms like Liberal, liberty, or freedom.

But the term used in the US has never been used in practice and doesn't actually exist.

The way libertarians like you understand libertarianism, ensures that it never will exist.

As you've stated!

And it offers nothing that other countries don't already have. If you think it does then start naming it.
  
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Re: How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Reply #25 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 3:57pm
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The US invented the term, 'libertarian'. Other countries just use terms like Liberal, liberty, or freedom.
But they have very little of it.  If you read the early works of libertarian authors, you might notice that they called themselves "liberals" or often used the term liberalism and libertarianism interchangeably.  This was to separate themselves from those who believed in the kind of authoritarian governments that formed in Italy, Russia, Germany and the U.S. during the thirties. 

But in the fifties and sixties, socialists - knowing that Americans are highly skeptical of socialism - started calling themselves "liberals" even though they advocated growing an intrusive and authoritarian government.

One question for you, Don_G and then I'll get back to your other post:  You believe people have a right to be free from fear of gun owners, free from payments for health care and free from hearing speech that offends them.   Do you also believe that people have a right to be free from work?  If a person simply refuses to work while acknowledging that he or she is capable of working, does that create a right for them to be fed, clothed, housed and cared for at the expense of others?

  
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Re: How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Reply #26 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 4:16pm
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Don_G wrote on Sep 28th, 2017 at 3:37pm:
The way libertarians like you understand libertarianism, ensures that it never will exist... And it offers nothing that other countries don't already have. If you think it does then start naming it.

The Second Amendment.  The US is the only nation that recognizes a citizen's uninfringable right to own and bear (fire)arms.   No other nation recognizes this as a natural right.   Not ONE.   


  
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Re: How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Reply #27 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 4:50pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 28th, 2017 at 4:16pm:
The Second Amendment.  The US is the only nation that recognizes a citizen's uninfringable right to own and bear (fire)arms.   No other nation recognizes this as a natural right.   Not ONE.   



What about the Swiss?  It seems at least implicit with them.
  
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Re: How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Reply #28 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 6:32pm
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ahhell wrote on Sep 28th, 2017 at 4:50pm:
What about the Swiss?  It seems at least implicit with them. 

Indeed, at one time the Swiss enjoyed an unquestionable right to keep and bear arms. However, the quasi-socialist EU parliament has forced the Swiss to comply with new rules/restrictions as a member of the 26 single-border Schengen group countries, even though Switzerland is not a consentual member of the EU!!

Swiss Justice Minister Simonetta Sommaruga, agreed at a meeting in Luxembourg on stricter rules on buying and owning semi-automatic weapons, as well action on stopping deactivated guns being put back into use and better tracing of trafficked weapons.  Tighter controls would also be placed on internet gun sales.

Swiss militia can still keep their government-issue carbines, however sport-shooters and hunters face an uphill battle to restore gun rights which they had prior to the EU injunction.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics/referendum-threat_rifle-association-up-in-...
  
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Don_G
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Re: How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Reply #29 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 7:11pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 28th, 2017 at 4:16pm:
The Second Amendment.  The US is the only nation that recognizes a citizen's uninfringable right to own and bear (fire)arms.   No other nation recognizes this as a natural right.   Not ONE.


Most of them own guns and bear them anywhere they want to go. Canada does too. Are you so stupid that you don't know what's going on in the rest of the world? What the US has is gun violence that far outstrips the stats for the rest of the world. Happy 2nd. amendment!   

  
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