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Poll Question: Are you a minimalist?
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I'm a libertarian    
  3 (75.0%)
I'm a minimalist libertarian    
  0 (0.0%)
Not a libertarian    
  1 (25.0%)




Total votes: 4
« Created by: Land of Freedom on: Sep 26th, 2017 at 6:16pm »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian? (Read 713 times)
Don_G
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Re: How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Reply #30 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 7:13pm
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ahhell wrote on Sep 28th, 2017 at 4:50pm:
What about the Swiss?  It seems at least implicit with them. 


Canadians keep and bear arms all we want. Don't believe the gungoon pap he's trying to sell.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Reply #31 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 7:27pm
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Don_G wrote on Sep 28th, 2017 at 7:11pm:
Most of them own guns and bear them anywhere they want to go. Canada does too. Are you so stupid that you don't know what's going on in the rest of the world? What the US has is gun violence that far outstrips the stats for the rest of the world. Happy 2nd. amendment!   


You're delusional.  Canada has had gun confiscation, and gun laws are much stricter in Canada.

Most importantly, Canada does not recognise the natural right to keep and bear arms.

Don't pretend to be ignorant.   NVM, you're not pretending.
  
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Don_G
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Re: How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Reply #32 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 7:33pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 28th, 2017 at 7:27pm:
You're delusional.  Canada has had gun confiscation, and gun laws are much stricter in Canada.

Most importantly, Canada does not recognise the natural right to keep and bear arms.

Don't pretend to be ignorant.   NVM, you're not pretending.

Canada is way ahead of you. We recognize the natural right to arm bears. Don't be silly. You're trying to make up shit to justify your 2nd. amendment right to slaughter children in their schools.

Your country could easily satisfy the rights of parents who fear for their children's safety and still allow everybody reasonable gun rights.

It may disallow them packing heat in a bar room but that would be quite reasonable and even save a lot of lives.

Real libertarians don't pretend about this shit chief.
  
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burnsred
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Re: How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Reply #33 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 10:10pm
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burnsred wrote Today at 1:14pm:
Indeed he did.  Once for a system that failed to meet his needs and once for a system that succeeded in meeting his needs.


The system didn't fail to meet his needs.
By his standards it did.  The fact that he went to Florida for surgery instead of waiting on a list on which he might have died is proof enough of that.

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I'm sure such people (people who died for lack of health care in the U.S.) would be well-publicized since the U.S. media is so eager to have our medical system socialized.  Can you provide me with some names?


Socializing your system is the only answer for health care that looks after all the people at an affordable price. If you don't want that then you're free to object to it.

So . . . no names, then?

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You stated that the news is telling you that the U.S. "excludes Muslims."  There are 3.3 Muslims in the United States.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_States

So it is inaccurate to say that "the U.S. excludes Muslims."


No, I didn't bring Muslims into the conversation, I said refugees.
The link you provided accused the U.S. of "Islamophobia."  So you brought Muslims into it.  When you said that the U.S. excludes people, I actually thought you meant our southern border.


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It's not important that you contradicted yourself.  But countries like Saudi Arabia, Dubai, United Arab Emirates and Jordon excluding Muslims is.  Any comment?


Those countries are likely excluding refugees too.
Yes, overwhelmingly Muslim refugees.  You don't seem the least bit concerned that their neighbors don't take them in.  It seems kind of a weird coincidence that all of your criticism is for the U.S. and never for any other country for doing exactly what you criticize the U.S. for.


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Our ability to rescue the rest of the world repeatedly did not stem from following the rest of the world.

If you think you rescued the world then thank you for the rescue.
Don't thank me, I don't think we should have done it.  Sending Americans to die in Europe for the second time in a half century.  Fighting Germany on behalf of the Soviet Union.  Never again, I hope.

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I don't see that as having anything to do with the obvious need to accept universal government health care for your people. There doesn't seem to be any other way that can be anywhere nearly as successful. Even Singapore finally accepted it!
Danny Williams didn't accept it.  Neither do thousands of his fellow Canadians.
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But, again - we get those "facts" from the governments who claim to be making their people happy.  In the Soviet Union the leaders would brag about winning 99 to 100 percent of the vote every election.


You get those facts sometimes from people in your own country. Isn't it a bit silly to be trying to make out that your country isn't all screwed up and very unhappy with government?
There is  no Soviet Union but in Russia the actual truth is that Putin's popularity is always somewhere around or above 80%! Is that what you meant?
Your trust in Russian dictators is touching.

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I think you are using the word "freedom" very differently than do your fellow libertarians.

We should talk about that accusation in detail! I think you are suggesting that I advocate compromising the freedom of a few for the greater good of the masses. It's about US attitudes toward guns, dogs, unions, workers, property, and nearly everything else where rights and freedoms are questioned as to legitimacy.
Your mistake is in thinking that you can compromise the freedom of a few.  If one person can  have his freedom taken for some supposed greater good, then everyone's can with equal ease.  As MLK said, "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

  
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Don_G
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Re: How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Reply #34 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 10:59pm
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Reallly burnsred, Danny wouldn't have died on a waiting list. Our health care 'does' provide care in a timely manner and cases that need immediate care get that.

Remember, our health care system is better than yours and our medical our experience is better than yours too. Why do you not want to accept what the WHO tells us? Do you think they hate America?
  
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Don_G
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Re: How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Reply #35 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 11:12pm
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burnsred, you have to see this:

http://www.conferenceboard.ca/hcp/details.aspx

check out each of the categories with the overviews. Canada is far ahead of your country in all of them except the environment where Canada is rated only one better.

Then check each of the categories under 'health'. Canada leads your country in them all except two that are ties. I really didn't think your health care was that bad! It's disgusting burnred for a rich and modern country. Just disgusting! Danny's lucky he cam back alive! He should have went to France.
  
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burnsred
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Re: How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Reply #36 - Sep 29th, 2017 at 10:42am
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What a surprise that Canada rates itself so highly in so many categories!

One would wonder, if those stats are true, why more each year than a million  people immigrate legally to the States along with countless illegal aliens while Canada only welcomes about a quarter million per year.


Maybe they haven't read that website . . .


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Reallly burnsred, Danny wouldn't have died on a waiting list. Our health care 'does' provide care in a timely manner and cases that need immediate care get that.
Really, Don_G?  This study says otherwise:

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/effect-of-wait-times-on-mort...

I guess you know more than those researchers?

This story puts a more human face on it since you hate Danny Williams for being wealthy:

http://ihcproviders.com/2016/02/09/sentences-to-death-by-a-waitlist/

An eighteen year old girl who never saw nineteen due to the inhumane Canadian system.


  
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ahhell
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Re: How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Reply #37 - Sep 29th, 2017 at 11:08am
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burnsred wrote on Sep 29th, 2017 at 10:42am:
What a surprise that Canada rates itself so highly in so many categories!

One would wonder, if those stats are true, why more each year than a million  people immigrate legally to the States along with countless illegal aliens while Canada only welcomes about a quarter million per year.


To be fair, The US has about 10x the population of Canada to begin with.  The US has far more immigrants than Canada but a lower percentage of the population.  14% in the US vs 22% in Canada.  Canada's immigrants are more diverse which makes assimilation easier. 

Of note, there are 840k Canadians in the US vs about 660k Americans living in Canada.  It suggests that the US is a more attractive destination. 


http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/05/18/5-facts-about-the-u-s-rank-in-wo...



Mildly amusing website:

http://www.canadianliving.com/health/prevention-and-recovery/article/9-ways-to-j...

Canada's medical care is so timely that they need advice on skipping line, queue for you Canadians.
  
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Re: How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Reply #38 - Sep 29th, 2017 at 11:28am
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Don_G wrote on Sep 28th, 2017 at 7:33pm:
Canada is way ahead of you. We recognize the natural right to arm bears.


Bullshit. Show me in Canada's Bill of Rights where it talks about the right to keep and bear arms.  You CAN'T because it's not there.

Liar.

Don_G wrote on Sep 28th, 2017 at 7:33pm:
Don't be silly. You're trying to make up shit to justify your 2nd. amendment right to slaughter children in their schools.

Reductio ad absurdum...

A last-ditch debate strategy when someone has completely exhausted all rational arguments.

I'm glad you used it.    Smiley 
  
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Don_G
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Re: How minimum does a minimalist have to be to be a libertarian?
Reply #39 - Sep 29th, 2017 at 1:03pm
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burnsred wrote on Sep 29th, 2017 at 10:42am:
What a surprise that Canada rates itself so highly in so many categories!


Not just Canada, as I've stated several times.

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One would wonder, if those stats are true, why more each year than a million  people immigrate legally to the States along with countless illegal aliens while Canada only welcomes about a quarter million per year.


I'm amazed that Canada'snumber is so high. Per capita wise it should be ten times our number for your country. So if we welcome 250,000 then your country should be welcoming 2,500,000! I rest my case!


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Really, Don_G?  This study says otherwise:

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/effect-of-wait-times-on-mort...

I guess you know more than those researchers?


I think the Fraser institute knows a lot. They are a rightwing thinktank that supports the idea of discontinuing our universal, government managed health care system and replacing it with something similar to what the US has. There's big money in health care and so it's quite natural for the extreme right to want at it. I don't discredit your source because i know they are genuine in their thinking, but I would say they have less than 10% support of the Canadian people and a snowball's chance in hell. So be it, they keep trying. And now back to the real world.

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This story puts a more human face on it since you hate Danny Williams for being wealthy:

http://ihcproviders.com/2016/02/09/sentences-to-death-by-a-waitlist/


Why on earth would I hate Danny Williams? I very much dislike his politics because it's the extreme opposite of my libertarian agenda. He's attempting to destroy that which is supported by over 90% of Canadians and that which is considered to be far superior to the crumbling US system!

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An eighteen year old girl who never saw nineteen due to the inhumane Canadian system.




A sad story! But quite anecdotal and not supportive of the facts and our medical experience. And not a very honest tactic burnsred, I must say.

The reason is because that sort of story is being told to epidemic proportions in your country. So to use rather isolated example for Canada when your system is known world wide for it's abusive and callous disregard for American lives, is a little bit disengenous wouldn't you say?

A think that right now burnsred, your health care system mess just can't be defended or even compared to that of other modern and wealthy first world countries.

Maybe after it's fixed, if it ever is, but not now. It's just too surreal to even try right now.
  
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