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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students (Read 448 times)
burnsred
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How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students
Sep 26th, 2017 at 10:23pm
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This is only one way they do:

Most students go to school, play sports, participate in band, whatever.  They they graduate go to college or jobs and don't think much about public school until reunion time. 

But for a large percentage of them, they also receive what is called special education and/or related services.  Related services are services such as counseling, speech therapy, various therapies for lower functioning people on the AU spectrum, etc.  These services are "free" in the sense that parents are not required to pay for them.  Ok, well and good.

The failure comes in when a student needs more services than a school can provide with existing staff and resources.  A student with dyslexia who would benefit from after-school tutoring.  A speech impaired student who could speak much more normally if he gets speech therapy two or three times per week instead of once every six weeks.    A student with anger issues (AKA depression) who could be helped by talk therapy more frequently than one hour ever nine weeks.

There's an image of a school counselor or school psychologist waiting in her office like Lucy Van Pelt for students to come and talk about their problems.  They are far, far too bogged down with paperwork, testing and administrative duties to spare more than a few hours a week for work with students and their caseloads are often large and across multiple schools.

So why not just tell the parents forthrightly:  "Your kid needs more than we can give him.  We recommend you seek professional help outside the school setting."  Unfortunately such professionals are put in a catch 22.  If the school tells the parent that the child needs counseling the district is obligated to pay for that counseling or hire more counselors.  Same goes for speech services, dyslexia services, bilingual services, physical therapy, etc.  There is pressure on providers to tell parents that their student needs what the district is willing to provide and no more.  "Pressure" really isn't the right word.  There is no option.  Any Speech path who told a parent that their kid could benefit from more frequent sessions than the district wants to provide would not be coming back next school year.

It's heartbreaking to see kids who are doomed to stutter their way through job interviews, be rejected as romantic partners because who wants a spouse who might produce k-k-k-kids and become more and more withdrawn.  Often the parents are well off enough to easily provide additional therapy if the school would only be upfront with them.  Even poor kids often have extended family networks who could raise funds for such a life changing cause.  But those families put their faith in government assurances that all that can be done is already being done.





   
  
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SkyChief
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Re: How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students
Reply #1 - Sep 27th, 2017 at 9:27am
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This is one of the reasons the government should not be responsible for schooling kids.  Schooling children should be the responsibility of the parents.  "Special needs" students can attend "special need" schools and get the attention they deserve. Good special-needs schools will thrive, bad ones will be forced to close.

Free Market schooling could be the solution.
  
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Don_G
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Re: How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students
Reply #2 - Sep 27th, 2017 at 1:48pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 27th, 2017 at 9:27am:
This is one of the reasons the government should not be responsible for schooling kids.  Schooling children should be the responsibility of the parents.  "Special needs" students can attend "special need" schools and get the attention they deserve. Good special-needs schools will thrive, bad ones will be forced to close.

Free Market schooling could be the solution.


Special needs schools seem to be more likely the answer.

But I can see the value in the US doing an experiment on free market schooling. I think it would likely turn out to be as much as a failure as free market health care.

US schooling is already failing too much because it seems to allow the free market to interfere in public schooling.

An instance to show that is true was the Dover school board's law suit pushing for 'Intelligent Design' to be taught in the schools. Goverment came to the rescue just in time to shoot that bullshit down. Are you aware of what happened?

It was a close call! But it didn't put an end to the private sector trying to interfere in the education system. School texts that are used throughout the US come from Texas and that's the bastion of truth alteration.

If you claim to be a libertarian then we should talk about the subject in detail. As libertarians we would find some agreement. And as an American, you would find it reassuring on the need for the separation of church and state!
  
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ahhell
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Re: How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students
Reply #3 - Sep 27th, 2017 at 2:34pm
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What do you imagine a free market to be?  One that is heavily regulated or monopolized by the government?

  
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SkyChief
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Re: How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students
Reply #4 - Sep 27th, 2017 at 2:55pm
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ahhell wrote on Sep 27th, 2017 at 2:34pm:
What do you imagine a free market to be?  One that is heavily regulated or monopolized by the government?



LOLs   Smiley
  
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Don_G
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Re: How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students
Reply #5 - Sep 27th, 2017 at 2:59pm
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ahhell wrote on Sep 27th, 2017 at 2:34pm:
What do you imagine a free market to be?  One that is heavily regulated or monopolized by the government?



It's not relevant. It's obvious that some regulation by government is necessary. The problem is, you haven't the mental capacity to understand just how much.

When are you going to learn not to argue with me?
  
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SkyChief
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Re: How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students
Reply #6 - Sep 27th, 2017 at 3:14pm
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Don_G wrote on Sep 27th, 2017 at 1:48pm:
Special needs schools seem to be more likely the answer.

This is what I proposed.  So you agree.  Smiley

Don_G wrote on Sep 27th, 2017 at 1:48pm:
But I can see the value in the US doing an experiment on free market schooling. I think it would likely turn out to be as much as a failure as free market health care.

It wouldn't be an experiment on free market schooling.  Guess what kind of schooling the US had before Public schools..... [cue Jeopardy music]....

Yep - Free Market schooling!  The parents would pool their money and build a schoolhouse.  They would hire a teacher to teach their kids.  Alternatively, children were home-schooled in rural areas.  It worked just fine back then - it will work just fine today.

Government makes a mess out of everything it touches.  Let governmnet do its job; make Laws and protect individual liberties. Let parents do their job; teach and care for their children.

Its the libertarian way.
  
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Don_G
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Re: How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students
Reply #7 - Sep 27th, 2017 at 3:38pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 27th, 2017 at 3:14pm:
This is what I proposed.  So you agree.  Smiley

It wouldn't be an experiment on free market schooling.  Guess what kind of schooling the US had before Public schools..... [cue Jeopardy music]....

Yep - Free Market schooling!  The parents would pool their money and build a schoolhouse.  They would hire a teacher to teach their kids.  Alternatively, children were home-schooled in rural areas.  It worked just fine back then - it will work just fine today.

Government makes a mess out of everything it touches.  Let governmnet do its job; make Laws and protect individual liberties. Let parents do their job; teach and care for their children.

Its the libertarian way.


Good argument Chief! Now let's look at reality. You're probably right that the US had something else before it got public education. That tells us something doesn't it!

Yup, home schooling! And people are entitled to school their children that way if they so choose. (well, in Canada they are)

And some do! I'm going to make a guess that it's about .0l% of the people that home school. That's an open invitation for you to prove me wrong and then own me again! Go for it!

FYI, that's equal to 1 in 1000 parents. Really Chief, you can use this!

Ya know chief, every time you post one of those smiley faces with the drink or the surfboard, people associate that little guy with your brain. You need to try to grow out of it like Jeff finally did.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students
Reply #8 - Sep 27th, 2017 at 4:23pm
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Don_G wrote on Sep 27th, 2017 at 3:38pm:
I'm going to make a guess that it's about .0l% of the people that home school. That's an open invitation for you to prove me wrong and then own me again! Go for it!

You're not even in the ballpark.  Roll Eyes

Approximately 1,770,000 students are homeschooled in the United States—3.4% of the school-age population.

But that's not relevant to the argument for the need to get "special needs" children in schools that are equipped to handle them.

Burnsred correctly pointed out that government-run schools always fall short when it comes to helping special-needs students.  In a Free Market, if a school proves itself unworthy of taking special-needs students, parents won't bring their children there! 

Thinkey - thinkey!  Free Market wins again.      Smiley
  
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Don_G
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Re: How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students
Reply #9 - Sep 27th, 2017 at 4:29pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 27th, 2017 at 4:23pm:
You're not even in the ballpark.  Roll Eyes

Approximately 1,770,000 students are homeschooled in the United States—3.4% of the school-age population.




Excellent, you own me again!!

edit: except that I didn't refer to students, I referred to parents. Dohhhhhhh!

Anyway, close enough for the purpose of being able to own me!


  
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