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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students (Read 622 times)
Don_G
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Re: How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students
Reply #30 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 1:29pm
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ahhell wrote on Sep 28th, 2017 at 1:15pm:
Sure, two wrongs don't make a right but teaching about a religion is not a wrong.   Indoctrinating into a religion in public schools is. 


Well stated! There's obviously a huge difference.
  
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burnsred
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Re: How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students
Reply #31 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 3:50pm
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ahhell wrote Today at 1:15pm:
Sure, two wrongs don't make a right but teaching about a religion is not a wrong.   Indoctrinating into a religion in public schools is.


Well stated! There's obviously a huge difference.
Y'all sure Y'all is libertarians?  It's funny, because it's usually the liberals who use the line "That's DIFFERENT!" every time they are presented with examples that prove them wrong.

So, to get back to the libertarian point - public schools are failing our children.  You could give me a gross (which is twelve dozen) of examples of public school students being indoctrinated into a religion, I'm sure.  I hope you do because each of them would only strengthen my libertarian point.

Public schools fail to meet student's needs successfully.  So no libertarian, nor even a reasonable statist for that matter, should believe that children should be involuntarily sent to them for thirteen years while their parents are forced to pay for them at gunpoint.
  
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ahhell
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Re: How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students
Reply #32 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 3:57pm
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I agree the government monopoly on education harms children.  I do however see value in providing universal education, a free republican can not survive with an ignorant population and the nation and state have an interest in preventing that. 

I would prefer continued public support via vouchers or choice programs than for the government to simply stop paying for primary and secondary schools though.
  
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burnsred
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Re: How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students
Reply #33 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 4:12pm
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I agree the government monopoly on education harms children.  I do however see value in providing universal education, a free republican can not survive with an ignorant population and the nation and state have an interest in preventing that.
Is our public school system preventing us from having an ignorant population now?  Look at the literacy rates among the poor.  This is the primary means of arguing against libertarianism.  The anti-libertarian imagines a government that offers perfect services to the people and then pretends that it is in fact the existing government.  Then they compare that perfect government to a world in which no one receives those services, because no one will see the opportunities to prosper by providing what government once did.

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I would prefer continued public support via vouchers or choice programs than for the government to simply stop paying for primary and secondary schools though.
The government isn't going to "simply stop" doing anything.  That's an absurdist argument against libertarianism.  That it somehow means that libertarians will take over government which will instantly shut itself down from all operations and on the way out it will tear up all the roads it has built over the years. 

Libertarianism is a type of political maturity.  People outgrow the need for the nanny state and start to resent having to pay half their earnings to keep it going.  But like any other kind of maturity, should be achieved gradually so that the changes can be adjusted to.
  
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Don_G
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Re: How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students
Reply #34 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 7:22pm
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burnsred wrote on Sep 28th, 2017 at 4:12pm:
Is our public school system preventing us from having an ignorant population now?  Look at the literacy rates among the poor.  This is the primary means of arguing against libertarianism.  The anti-libertarian imagines a government that offers perfect services to the people and then pretends that it is in fact the existing government.  Then they compare that perfect government to a world in which no one receives those services, because no one will see the opportunities to prosper by providing what government once did.

The government isn't going to "simply stop" doing anything.  That's an absurdist argument against libertarianism.  That it somehow means that libertarians will take over government which will instantly shut itself down from all operations and on the way out it will tear up all the roads it has built over the years. 

Libertarianism is a type of political maturity.  People outgrow the need for the nanny state and start to resent having to pay half their earnings to keep it going.  But like any other kind of maturity, should be achieved gradually so that the changes can be adjusted to.


The sort of libertarianism being espoused on this board is demonstrating immaturity. These people can't come to the understanding that some rights they claim must be denied in the greater good.

Fortunately you are starting to come to terms with those truths!
  
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burnsred
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Re: How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students
Reply #35 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 7:59pm
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These people can't come to the understanding that some rights they claim must be denied in the greater good.

Fortunately you are starting to come to terms with those truths!
I haven't come to terms with them, I just stopped asking you to be specific since you have so consistently refused.
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Muslims are people and I'm not going to get into any conversation that attempts to separate them from the rest of Americans. That would be the definition of racism.
You brought them up by posting a link in which the U.S. was excoriated for supposedly excluding refugees due to Islamaphobia.  You don't read your own links? 

I can't help but notice how often you express that you are too sensitive to discuss this subject or that.  That doesn't seem conducive to a political conversation.



  
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Don_G
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Re: How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students
Reply #36 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 8:41pm
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burnsred wrote on Sep 28th, 2017 at 7:59pm:
I haven't come to terms with them, I just stopped asking you to be specific since you have so consistently refused.
You brought them up by posting a link in which the U.S. was excoriated for supposedly excluding refugees due to Islamaphobia.  You don't read your own links? 

I can't help but notice how often you express that you are too sensitive to discuss this subject or that.  That doesn't seem conducive to a political conversation.





I'm not too sensitive, I'm just refusing to take part in your proposed conversation that smells of racism. Others will undoubtedly have no problem with it.

I think you have indeed come to terms with the necessity to recognize rights of workers. Although you would allow unions, you would insist on making them powerless.

But at least you understand the principle now that workers are people too and have as much right to govern their lives as much as an employer.

For example: Especially an employer who finds that his wife is screwing the labourer next door and goes and fires some workers to get even. It happens far too often!
  
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burnsred
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Re: How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students
Reply #37 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 8:46pm
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I haven't come to terms with them, I just stopped asking you to be specific since you have so consistently refused.
You brought them up by posting a link in which the U.S. was excoriated for supposedly excluding refugees due to Islamaphobia.  You don't read your own links?

I can't help but notice how often you express that you are too sensitive to discuss this subject or that.  That doesn't seem conducive to a political conversation.





I'm not too sensitive, I'm just refusing to take part in your proposed conversation that smells of racism. Others will undoubtedly have no problem with it.
Then why did you bring it up by providing a link accusing the U.S. of Islamophobia?

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I think you have indeed come to terms with the necessity to recognize rights of workers. Although you would allow unions, you would insist on making them powerless.

But at least you understand the principle now that workers are people too and have as much right to govern their lives as much as an employer.

For example: Especially an employer who finds that his wife is screwing the labourer next door and goes and fires some workers to get even. It happens far too often!
Must be a Canadian thing.  I've never heard of that.  Just out of curiosity and if it isn't my business just ignore the question or claim it's irrelevant or deny it or whatever . . . .

Were you the employer whose wife got screwed?
 

  
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Don_G
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Re: How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students
Reply #38 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 11:16pm
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burnsred wrote on Sep 28th, 2017 at 8:46pm:
Then why did you bring it up by providing a link accusing the U.S. of Islamophobia?


burnsred, NO!

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Must be a Canadian thing.  I've never heard of that.  Just out of curiosity and if it isn't my business just ignore the question or claim it's irrelevant or deny it or whatever . . . .

Were you the employer whose wife got screwed?


And No again.
 
http://www.conferenceboard.ca/hcp/details.aspx

I used this link on your other thread to show just how poorly the US compares to Canada. I think it's applicable here too. Pretty bad pal!

And some of these pseudo-libertarians want to pile on their perverted style of libertarianism on top of that to make it even worse! Duhhhhhhh! 

a hint: Compare your military, it's the biggest and best in the entire world and it's rescued over 30 million people since WW2 by bombing them to death.

Isn't that a pseudo-libertarian right.

p.s. Sorry, I got snarky because i've been getting it shoved in my face by the two morons so often. (chief and jeff)

We both can do better.

  
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burnsred
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Re: How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students
Reply #39 - Sep 29th, 2017 at 10:07am
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What do you mean, "no?"  Here is the link that you provided:

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/us-politics/us-supreme-court-gives-g...

It states:

The U.S. Supreme Court has partly reimposed President Donald Trump's ban on travellers from six Muslim-majority countries and on refugees.

The move ensures the continuation of one of the most divisive battles of the Trump administration, with the White House arguing the bans are intended to guard against terrorism, while civil liberties and immigrants' rights groups contend they are motivated by Islamophobia.

It is also likely, some immigration lawyers say, to continue pushing immigrants toward Canada, as international students and workers who are worried about their prospects in the United States try the country to the north instead.


Canada has only has a little over a million Muslims while the U.S. has 3.3 million.  Clearly, we are not excluding them.  Perhaps the reason Canada has so few Muslims is that Canadians are constantly lashing out at them:
https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-05-24/canadian-groups-are-lashing-out-about-mus...

So tell your piasanos to stop all that lashing!  (Piasanos means countrymen in Italian.  You probably don't realize that since Canada excludes immigrants so much.)

Canada also excludes refugees.  Last year they only admitted about half as many as the U.S. did.

It's a good thing that the Inuits did not also oppose refugees or there would be no whites in Canada.

You know Canadians better than I do.  Is the Canadian opposition to immigration and refugee acceptance primarily because they want to keep Canada white or because Muslims are so hated by Canadians?

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Compare your military, it's the biggest and best in the entire world and it's rescued over 30 million people since WW2 by bombing them to death.

Isn't that a pseudo-libertarian right.
Libertarians strongly oppose that kind of foreign intervention.  Not just by the U.S. and not just in the second half of this century.
  
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