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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students (Read 456 times)
Don_G
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Re: How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students
Reply #40 - Sep 29th, 2017 at 1:59pm
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Canada doesn't have "So Few Muslims"

If Canada has 1 million Muslims then the US shouldn't have 3.3 million, it should have 10 million!

Please burnsred! This isn't a complicated issue!

As for the link, is that the one you kept asking me if I had posted it by mistake?

If so then I think it might be?

In any case, a quick look at the link shows that it makes several points. Which one is it that you are dwelling on most? Than I'll tell you whether I'm pro or con on it.
  
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burnsred
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Re: How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students
Reply #41 - Sep 29th, 2017 at 7:25pm
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Canada doesn't have "So Few Muslims"
It has far fewer than the U.S.

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If Canada has 1 million Muslims then the US shouldn't have 3.3 million, it should have 10 million!
You're confusing cause and effect.  Canada doesn't admit fewer immigrants because it has a smaller population.  It has a smaller population because it admits fewer immigrants.  In the U.S. our growth is driven by our immigration, not by our native population's birth rate.


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As for the link, is that the one you kept asking me if I had posted it by mistake?

If so then I think it might be?
No, it was my mistake to think so.  You were accusing the U.S. of excluding people and that is what your link is about:  an accusation that they U.S. excludes people.

Quote:
In any case, a quick look at the link shows that it makes several points. Which one is it that you are dwelling on most? Than I'll tell you whether I'm pro or con on it.

As I said before:

Quote:
It states:

The U.S. Supreme Court has partly reimposed President Donald Trump's ban on travellers from six Muslim-majority countries and on refugees.

The move ensures the continuation of one of the most divisive battles of the Trump administration, with the White House arguing the bans are intended to guard against terrorism, while civil liberties and immigrants' rights groups contend they are motivated by Islamophobia.

It is also likely, some immigration lawyers say, to continue pushing immigrants toward Canada, as international students and workers who are worried about their prospects in the United States try the country to the north instead.


So feel free to disavow your own link, but it was you who introduced the subject of Muslims so no need to posture as such an purist on the subject of race that you can't bear to discuss it.
  
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Don_G
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Re: How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students
Reply #42 - Sep 29th, 2017 at 10:27pm
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I've asked you to tell me what point you are stuck on in that link and you don't do it. The point? What point? What am I disavowing?
  
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Don_G
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Re: How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students
Reply #43 - Sep 29th, 2017 at 10:32pm
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Don_G wrote on Sep 29th, 2017 at 10:27pm:
I've asked you to tell me what point you are stuck on in that link and you don't do it. The point? What point? What am I disavowing?


Actually, the exclusion I had in mind at the time I think was that Canada is taking in thousands of Haitians that are being excluded from the US. It's in the news.

And I'm not complaining in any case or either case. We need to take in refugees and especially from countries in which our military aided the US to make those poor people refugees. Muslims are fine! Syrians too even if they're not Muslims.

I like Muslims and I understand them quite well. even the violent ones because I understand why they turned violent. 911 didn't happen because they were jealous of our big screen t.v. sets. Ron Paul told us the reason!
  
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burnsred
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Re: How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students
Reply #44 - Sep 29th, 2017 at 10:51pm
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I've asked you to tell me what point you are stuck on in that link and you don't do it. The point? What point? What am I disavowing?
I'm not stuck on any point.  You said you didn't want to talk about Islam right after you posted a link about Islam.

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Actually, the exclusion I had in mind at the time I think was that Canada is taking in thousands of Haitians that are being excluded from the US. It's in the news.
If you had linked to that instead of the Muslim thing, I would have been more clear on that point about the Haitians.  Unless Haitians are Muslims.  I don't think so.  As it happens, I actually lost my virginity to a girl from Haiti who said the main religion in Haiti is "Catholic and Voodoo."  It was right after "the big event" so I remember it very well.  She wasn't at all joking about the voodoo.  She said, "If you keep doing that (voodoo rituals) you're going to get results."  Man, she had a cute accent!  But I digress . . .

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And I'm not complaining in any case or either case. We need to take in refugees and especially from countries in which our military aided the US to make those poor people refugees. Muslims are fine! Syrians too even if they're not Muslims.
Yes, that was my point earlier.  You need more refugees and other immigrants to pump up your population if you ever want to keep up with us.

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I like Muslims and I understand them quite well. even the violent ones because I understand why they turned violent. 911 didn't happen because they were jealous of our big screen t.v. sets. Ron Paul told us the reason!
Ok, so you've rethought your scruples against discussing Muslims on this forum.  Change all you like, change is growth, change is progress.  Or more correctly, growth and progress require change. 

Yes, Muslims have reason to be angry at the West.  Almost as much reason as they have to be angry at their leaders.  If Canada needs more angry immigrants, please invite as many as you like.  Open borders are an eventual goal of libertarianism. 

If you are so interested that I "compromise" libertarianism, there is your compromise.  Even if the Libertarian Party's candidates were to gain control of all parts of government in the next election, the conversion to a libertarian system would not happen overnight. 

The Texas libertarian Party states many of its positions as "ultimate goals" meaning that they will be brought about gradually even if libertarians were abler to take complete control of government. 

So for examples under libertarianism:  we will have open borders but only after ending the welfare state.  We will end the welfare state gradually because it would cause a humanitarian disaster to suddenly cut people off of aid that they have been conditioned by politicians to depend on.  We will end foreign military aid after giving our protectorates *ahem* time to prepare to defend themselves. 
  
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Don_G
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Re: How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students
Reply #45 - Sep 30th, 2017 at 1:10pm
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burnsred wrote on Sep 29th, 2017 at 10:51pm:
I'm not stuck on any point.  You said you didn't want to talk about Islam right after you posted a link about Islam.

If you had linked to that instead of the Muslim thing, I would have been more clear on that point about the Haitians.  Unless Haitians are Muslims.  I don't think so.  As it happens, I actually lost my virginity to a girl from Haiti who said the main religion in Haiti is "Catholic and Voodoo."  It was right after "the big event" so I remember it very well.  She wasn't at all joking about the voodoo.  She said, "If you keep doing that (voodoo rituals) you're going to get results."  Man, she had a cute accent!  But I digress . . .

Yes, that was my point earlier.  You need more refugees and other immigrants to pump up your population if you ever want to keep up with us.

Ok, so you've rethought your scruples against discussing Muslims on this forum.  Change all you like, change is growth, change is progress.  Or more correctly, growth and progress require change. 

Yes, Muslims have reason to be angry at the West.  Almost as much reason as they have to be angry at their leaders.  If Canada needs more angry immigrants, please invite as many as you like.  Open borders are an eventual goal of libertarianism. 

If you are so interested that I "compromise" libertarianism, there is your compromise.  Even if the Libertarian Party's candidates were to gain control of all parts of government in the next election, the conversion to a libertarian system would not happen overnight. 

The Texas libertarian Party states many of its positions as "ultimate goals" meaning that they will be brought about gradually even if libertarians were abler to take complete control of government. 

So for examples under libertarianism:  we will have open borders but only after ending the welfare state.  We will end the welfare state gradually because it would cause a humanitarian disaster to suddenly cut people off of aid that they have been conditioned by politicians to depend on.  We will end foreign military aid after giving our protectorates *ahem* time to prepare to defend themselves. 


Treating Muslims like other people and seeing them as just other citizens is not compromising libertarianism in the least.

You mention 'angry immigrants' and you're trying to say that they are Muslims. That's probably because you're not able to understand that Muslims aren't angry immigrants. You have to accept that Muslims aren't terrorists, some terrorists are Muslims and some are catholic and some are Jews. That was Obama's point because he knew it would be a mistake to make enemies with the entire Muslim world. Now Trump is trying to do just that our of arrogance. He thinks the US can kill them all. It's more likely that they will kill half of you with a bomb, but for revenge if your country doesn't start to change it's ways.

If you leave the racism and exclusionist attitude out of the discussion, I'll talk about Muslims with you. But I'm going to be very strict on those conditions.

Best of luck with the Texas libertarians. I can't think of a more exclusionist and extremist state in which to launch the program.
  
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burnsred
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Re: How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students
Reply #46 - Sep 30th, 2017 at 9:50pm
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Treating Muslims like other people and seeing them as just other citizens is not compromising libertarianism in the least.
I agree.  I wish Canada would admit as many Muslims as the U.S. does.  That would be much more libertarian than excluding them in the number that Canada does.

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You mention 'angry immigrants' and you're trying to say that they are Muslims. That's probably because you're not able to understand that Muslims aren't angry immigrants. You have to accept that Muslims aren't terrorists, some terrorists are Muslims and some are catholic and some are Jews. That was Obama's point because he knew it would be a mistake to make enemies with the entire Muslim world. Now Trump is trying to do just that our of arrogance. He thinks the US can kill them all.
Is there more than one person posting as "Don_G?"  Because one of them said:


Quote:
Yes, Muslims have reason to be angry at the West.
So it was you (or that other "Don_G") who said that Muslims are angry, not I.

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It's more likely that Muslims will kill half of you with a bomb, but for revenge if your country doesn't start to change it's ways.
So you stereotype Muslims as mass murderers?  None of my Muslims friends have ever committed murder.  I recommend you actually get to know some Muslims before you make a blanket statement like that.

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If you leave the racism and exclusionist attitude out of the discussion, I'll talk about Muslims with you. But I'm going to be very strict on those conditions.
Do you mean that sentence to be directed at a Canadian immigration official since Canada admits far fewer Muslims than the U.S. does?

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Best of luck with the Texas libertarians. I can't think of a more exclusionist and extremist state in which to launch the program.
I'll repeat my invitation to come visit us anytime.  We have libertarians on the ballot in almost every election so we can drive around pulling that straight ticket lever in multiple precincts.

  
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Re: How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students
Reply #47 - Sep 30th, 2017 at 10:14pm
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Don_G wrote on Sep 30th, 2017 at 1:10pm:
....
You have to accept that Muslims aren't terrorists, some terrorists are Muslims and some are catholic and some are Jews....


So you subscribe to the statements like  .. "males aren't rapists, but some rapists are males and some are females" ?   Both statements demagogically use language distortion to suggest similarities that do not exist,and to ignore the obvious and strong correlations.  It's an attempt to rationalize a distorted view of reality.  Most organized terrorist groups are Islamic inspired, and most rapists are males.  Those are empirical facts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_designated_terrorist_groups#Organizations_...

That doesn't show a causal relationship, but it does suggest that investigation of the correlates of such aggressive, violent acts is needed.

A Pew poll of the ME showed that even fairly advanced Muslim nations, like Turkey have significant portions (~30% from memory) of the population that agree that terrorist violence against innocent victims is sometimes or always justifiable.  In several nations it was more than 50%.   So one potential cause of so much terrorism from that region is that it is socially accepted and supported at least tacitly, and not rejected and ostracized.

The poll and other evidence describes a set of related cultures that generally (not universally) reject civil liberties, equal rights, deny freedom of religion and other beliefs, are sexist.   

So long as we have a system of government that can be abused by a democratic majority, then I'm very concerned about who gets to participate and what their values are.  People seeking to escape those problems are welcome, those seeking to bring those attitudes with them are not.


--

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Now Trump is trying to do just that our of arrogance. He thinks the US can kill them all.


Look I HATE Trump (not personally, but policies), but he NEVER said anything close to that.  That's you projecting your distorted view of reality - magical thinking.

--

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If you leave the racism and exclusionist attitude out of the discussion, I'll talk about Muslims with you. But I'm going to be very strict on those conditions.


'Islam' is not a race - your inability to think clearly and use language accurately prohibits any serious discussion.  So now the authoritarian, after violating every known rule of debate, wants to set limits - LOL!
You're racist claims about all Asians, and bigoted generalizations about libertarians are well known.

DON'T bother to reply unless you address the CONTENT.
  
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Re: How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students
Reply #48 - Sep 30th, 2017 at 10:57pm
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So long as we have a system of government that can be abused by a democratic majority, then I'm very concerned about who gets to participate and what their values are.  People seeking to escape those problems are welcome, those seeking to bring those attitudes with them are not.
Stevea, what is your take on the issue of open borders and libertarianism?

That is an issue I still grapple with.
  
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Re: How Public (Government) Schools Fail to Meet the Needs of Students
Reply #49 - Oct 1st, 2017 at 9:36am
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burnsred wrote on Sep 26th, 2017 at 10:23pm:
This is only one way they do:

Most students go to school, play sports, participate in band, whatever.  They they graduate go to college or jobs and don't think much about public school until reunion time. 

But for a large percentage of them, they also receive what is called special education and/or related services.  Related services are services such as counseling, speech therapy, various therapies for lower functioning people on the AU spectrum, etc.  These services are "free" in the sense that parents are not required to pay for them.  Ok, well and good.

The failure comes in when a student needs more services than a school can provide with existing staff and resources.  A student with dyslexia who would benefit from after-school tutoring.  A speech impaired student who could speak much more normally if he gets speech therapy two or three times per week instead of once every six weeks.    A student with anger issues (AKA depression) who could be helped by talk therapy more frequently than one hour ever nine weeks.

There's an image of a school counselor or school psychologist waiting in her office like Lucy Van Pelt for students to come and talk about their problems.  They are far, far too bogged down with paperwork, testing and administrative duties to spare more than a few hours a week for work with students and their caseloads are often large and across multiple schools.

So why not just tell the parents forthrightly:  "Your kid needs more than we can give him.  We recommend you seek professional help outside the school setting."  Unfortunately such professionals are put in a catch 22.  If the school tells the parent that the child needs counseling the district is obligated to pay for that counseling or hire more counselors.  Same goes for speech services, dyslexia services, bilingual services, physical therapy, etc.  There is pressure on providers to tell parents that their student needs what the district is willing to provide and no more.  "Pressure" really isn't the right word.  There is no option.  Any Speech path who told a parent that their kid could benefit from more frequent sessions than the district wants to provide would not be coming back next school year.

It's heartbreaking to see kids who are doomed to stutter their way through job interviews, be rejected as romantic partners because who wants a spouse who might produce k-k-k-kids and become more and more withdrawn.  Often the parents are well off enough to easily provide additional therapy if the school would only be upfront with them.  Even poor kids often have extended family networks who could raise funds for such a life changing cause.  But those families put their faith in government assurances that all that can be done is already being done.





   

i am with u some people have different needs then others and the government dose not have the resources to take care of them when there conections can help ancer then and anger is not depresstion and i would rather have kids with some one that has a speech impediment then be with some one that has no idea what its like to face discrimination and thinks ur better off cuz ur white male
  
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