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DontTread44
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How come developed countries are able to provide universal healthcare?
Sep 30th, 2017 at 11:40pm
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What makes countries like Australia and Sweden successful in providing their citizens with universal healthcare? I have only heard negative things about the UK and Canada's healthcare system. But other countries laugh at us for our failure in providing affordable healthcare.

Is a free-market healthcare system really the answer? Or should we look to countries like Australia, Sweden and Norway?
  
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burnsred
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Re: How come developed countries are able to provide universal healthcare?
Reply #1 - Oct 1st, 2017 at 9:36am
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What makes countries like Australia and Sweden successful in providing their citizens with universal healthcare? I have only heard negative things about the UK and Canada's healthcare system. But other countries laugh at us for our failure in providing affordable healthcare.
Sweden and Australia's secret to successful health care is two-fold:  First of all they carefully control their intake of immigrants so that their system is never strained by out of control growth in the numbers of people who will need health care.  Also they carefully control what services people are allowed to have.   


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Is a free-market healthcare system really the answer?
Yes, if we are going to continue to welcome immigrants.  A government system will never be able to react to changes in the client population as quickly or efficiently as the free market.

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Or should we look to countries like Australia, Sweden and Norway?
We should always look to success for examples that we may be able to follow.  But I would hate for us to end up like Canada.  The Canadians had a strict immigration policy and of course huge natural barriers to immigration.  They loosened up immigration restrictions only slightly but did not allow the free market to absorb the numbers.  So now they have teenage girls dying on wait lists, public officials who promote Canada's system escaping to the U.S. for treatment when their own lives are on the line and a growing deficit.



  
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Don_G
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Re: How come developed countries are able to provide universal healthcare?
Reply #2 - Oct 1st, 2017 at 1:16pm
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burnsred wrote on Oct 1st, 2017 at 9:36am:
Sweden and Australia's secret to successful health care is two-fold:  First of all they carefully control their intake of immigrants so that their system is never strained by out of control growth in the numbers of people who will need health care.  Also they carefully control what services people are allowed to have.   


Yes, if we are going to continue to welcome immigrants.  A government system will never be able to react to changes in the client population as quickly or efficiently as the free market.

We should always look to success for examples that we may be able to follow.  But I would hate for us to end up like Canada.  The Canadians had a strict immigration policy and of course huge natural barriers to immigration.  They loosened up immigration restrictions only slightly but did not allow the free market to absorb the numbers.  So now they have teenage girls dying on wait lists, public officials who promote Canada's system escaping to the U.S. for treatment when their own lives are on the line and a growing deficit.





Canada welcomes more immigrants per capita than the US.

Excuse denied!
  
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Jeff
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Re: How come developed countries are able to provide universal healthcare?
Reply #3 - Oct 1st, 2017 at 4:44pm
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DontTread44 wrote on Sep 30th, 2017 at 11:40pm:
What makes countries like Australia and Sweden successful in providing their citizens with universal healthcare?
Are you sure it's as good as it would be if they had a free market in healthcare instead of a heavily regulated cartel guaranteed access to our money?

To the point of your header, they are able to provide it because they didn't collectivize their economies... Would their economies be better if they weren't so regulated by the dead hand of government? Certainly.

If not, "developed" countries would provide universal health care exactly like Cuba's. Economies like Cuba's just never produced developed countries.

It takes free people and a rule of law to develop a country.
  
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Don_G
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Re: How come developed countries are able to provide universal healthcare?
Reply #4 - Oct 1st, 2017 at 6:28pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 1st, 2017 at 4:44pm:
Are you sure it's as good as it would be if they had a free market in healthcare instead of a heavily regulated cartel guaranteed access to our money?

To the point of your header, they are able to provide it because they didn't collectivize their economies... Would their economies be better if they weren't so regulated by the dead hand of government? Certainly.

If not, "developed" countries would provide universal health care exactly like Cuba's. Economies like Cuba's just never produced developed countries.

It takes free people and a rule of law to develop a country.


It's a good question Jeff. Is there any health care system that is successful that is private, for profit. If not then the first one that comes along will perhaps demonstrate whether it can be classed up there with the best that currently exists. Is there?
  
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burnsred
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Re: How come developed countries are able to provide universal healthcare?
Reply #5 - Oct 1st, 2017 at 6:34pm
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Canada welcomes more immigrants per capita than the US.
As I explained, the excuse that you admit fewer immigrants because you have fewer Canadian citizens is incredibly racist.  You won't let anymore brown people in until there are enough white people to keep the brown people in second class status?

The reason you have so few Canadian citizens is because of your exclusionary history.

Hm.  You're white.  Your a nationalist.  And a socialist.  White National Socialism.  That sounds soooo familiar.

 

  
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Don_G
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Re: How come developed countries are able to provide universal healthcare?
Reply #6 - Oct 1st, 2017 at 7:05pm
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burnsred wrote on Oct 1st, 2017 at 6:34pm:
As I explained, the excuse that you admit fewer immigrants because you have fewer Canadian citizens is incredibly racist.  You won't let anymore brown people in until there are enough white people to keep the brown people in second class status?

The reason you have so few Canadian citizens is because of your exclusionary history.

Hm.  You're white.  Your a nationalist.  And a socialist.  White National Socialism.  That sounds soooo familiar.

 



I'll consider it. I'll ask myself the question on why Andorra doesn't accept as many immigrants as the US.

Pretty dumb burnsred!
  
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burnsred
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Re: How come developed countries are able to provide universal healthcare?
Reply #7 - Oct 1st, 2017 at 7:14pm
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Andorra
Country in Europe
Population: 77,281 (2016) World Bank
Area: 180.6 mi²



United States of America
Country in North America
Population: 323.1 million (2016)
Area: 3.797 million mi²


Hm. 

Andorra - 187 square miles.  U.S. - 3.7 million square miles.

So the number of immigrants to the U.S. would hardly fit in Andorra.

Does Canada have the same excuse?



Canada
Country in North America
Population: 36.29 million (2016) World Bank
Area: 3.855 million mi²


Nope.

3.8 million square miles.  More than the U.S.

Why is your population so small?  Are you saving all of your  land for Swedish and other white immigrants?
  
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Don_G
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Re: How come developed countries are able to provide universal healthcare?
Reply #8 - Oct 1st, 2017 at 7:17pm
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burnsred wrote on Oct 1st, 2017 at 7:14pm:
Andorra
Country in Europe
Population: 77,281 (2016) World Bank
Area: 180.6 mi²



United States of America
Country in North America
Population: 323.1 million (2016)
Area: 3.797 million mi²


Hm. 

Andorra - 187 square miles.  U.S. - 3.7 million square miles.

So the number of immigrants to the U.S. would hardly fit in Andorra.

Does Canada have the same excuse? Nope.  3.8 million square miles.



Canada
Country in North America
Population: 36.29 million (2016) World Bank
Area: 3.855 million mi²


Hm. 

Why is your population so small?  Are you saving all of your available land for Swedish and other white immigrants?


Why is Canada's population so small? A good question!
Why not start a thread on the subject?

And how about that Helth care system that works better than government run systems of the world.

Does it exist or will we have to wait for US results after Trumpcare is in place? (snicker)
  
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burnsred
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Re: How come developed countries are able to provide universal healthcare?
Reply #9 - Oct 1st, 2017 at 7:48pm
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Why is Canada's population so small? A good question!
Why not start a thread on the subject?
It's not that complicated.  The U.S. welcomes immigrants.  Canada not so much.  So it is not surprising that your population is smaller.

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And how about that Helth care system that works better than government run systems of the world.
You mean the U.S. health system.  Danny Williams certainly thinks it does and he's alive to say so, thanks to it.

But you say Canada provides superior service at half the cost?  How does Canada do it?  Do doctors work cheaper even though they are higher quality?  Do medical supply companies charge half price for everything from bandages to MRI machines?  Are there fewer nurses and other non-MD caregivers but they are so efficient that the provide the same or greater levels of services with half the staff? 

I hope you aren't going to say "Well, a lot of Canadians go on waiting lists for expensive, lifesaving treatment.  But then when we try to call them several months later when they finally get to the top of the list, they don't answer their phones.  Changed their minds, I guess.  Boy, that really makes our system efficient!"

(That last paragraph is called a tone of "irony."  What the writer really means is that many Canadians simply die waiting for treatment which is less expensive than actually providing the treatment.  The writer means to imply that this is bad and not good)

See what I did there?  I'm trying to help.
  
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