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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) How come developed countries are able to provide universal healthcare? (Read 416 times)
Don_G
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Re: How come developed countries are able to provide universal healthcare?
Reply #10 - Oct 1st, 2017 at 11:01pm
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burnsred wrote on Oct 1st, 2017 at 7:48pm:
It's not that complicated.  The U.S. welcomes immigrants.  Canada not so much.  So it is not surprising that your population is smaller.

You mean the U.S. health system.  Danny Williams certainly thinks it does and he's alive to say so, thanks to it.

But you say Canada provides superior service at half the cost?  How does Canada do it?  Do doctors work cheaper even though they are higher quality?  Do medical supply companies charge half price for everything from bandages to MRI machines?  Are there fewer nurses and other non-MD caregivers but they are so efficient that the provide the same or greater levels of services with half the staff? 

I hope you aren't going to say "Well, a lot of Canadians go on waiting lists for expensive, lifesaving treatment.  But then when we try to call them several months later when they finally get to the top of the list, they don't answer their phones.  Changed their minds, I guess.  Boy, that really makes our system efficient!"

(That last paragraph is called a tone of "irony."  What the writer really means is that many Canadians simply die waiting for treatment which is less expensive than actually providing the treatment.  The writer means to imply that this is bad and not good)

See what I did there?  I'm trying to help.


The quick answer is that with government health care the private sector doesn't get to rake off exorbitant profit off the top.

This is why all the stalling and delay with the R's and Trump coming up with a plan.
  
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burnsred
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Re: How come developed countries are able to provide universal healthcare?
Reply #11 - Oct 1st, 2017 at 11:02pm
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The quick answer is that with government health care the private sector doesn't get to rake off exorbitant profit off the top.
Really? 

How much profit does the private sector make and how much would not be "exorbitant?"

  
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Don_G
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Re: How come developed countries are able to provide universal healthcare?
Reply #12 - Oct 1st, 2017 at 11:14pm
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burnsred wrote on Oct 1st, 2017 at 11:02pm:
Really? 

How much profit does the private sector make and how much would not be "exorbitant?"



Not an easy question to answer without looking at individual cases. We hear stories of a hospital visit of a week bankrupting people to the tune of 200-500k or more. A few Canadians have been trapped in your country and got taken to the cleaners.

When my wife and I travel we don't go to the US because the insurance for 2 weeks is cost prohibitive. We fly direct to other countries without stopping in the US. Seriously!

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cost-of-an-appendectomy-reddit-user-posts-55000-bil...

Appendectomy $200,000? What's that all about?
  
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Jeff
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Re: How come developed countries are able to provide universal healthcare?
Reply #13 - Oct 2nd, 2017 at 7:19am
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Don_G wrote on Oct 1st, 2017 at 6:28pm:
It's a good question Jeff. Is there any health care system that is successful that is private, for profit.
There used to be lots of them before governments started nationalizing them. They were only "systems" in the sense that the way food is provided for sale in supermarkets all across America is a "system", which is to say they were freely created by free people to provide things people wanted/needed to buy.
  
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Don_G
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Re: How come developed countries are able to provide universal healthcare?
Reply #14 - Oct 2nd, 2017 at 12:33pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 2nd, 2017 at 7:19am:
There used to be lots of them before governments started nationalizing them. They were only "systems" in the sense that the way food is provided for sale in supermarkets all across America is a "system", which is to say they were freely created by free people to provide things people wanted/needed to buy.


And so which countries were those 'lots of them'? Singapore was the last big switch to government health care. Do you know why?
  
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Don_G
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Re: How come developed countries are able to provide universal healthcare?
Reply #15 - Oct 2nd, 2017 at 12:38pm
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When Americans allow themselves to be dragged into a discussion on health care, it's like them stepping into dog shit. They can try to get rid of it in all sorts of ways but it keeps on stinking.

With the discussion, they can keep it going or retreat in an inconspicuous way. The trouble is, some foreigner always keeps dropping more dog shit in their path and they're not smart enough to stop trudging along right into it.
  
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ahhell
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Re: How come developed countries are able to provide universal healthcare?
Reply #16 - Oct 2nd, 2017 at 12:54pm
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DontTread44 wrote on Sep 30th, 2017 at 11:40pm:
What makes countries like Australia and Sweden successful in providing their citizens with universal healthcare? I have only heard negative things about the UK and Canada's healthcare system. But other countries laugh at us for our failure in providing affordable healthcare.

Is a free-market healthcare system really the answer? Or should we look to countries like Australia, Sweden and Norway?
To answer the OP, in part because the US has provided them security for the last 70 years.  They've been able to save on military spending as a result. 

Norway and Sweden especially have been sheltered from their large hostile neighbor while amassing a great deal of wealth from natural resources.  The homogeneous population as also ensured broad consensus in their societies.  Studies have also quite clearly shown that more homogeneous societies are much more willing to spend on social welfare programs.  The consensus on these matters is currently breaking done in these countries. 

Australia has also had an economy supported by vast mineral wealth with a largely homogeneous and tiny population.  We see how recent influx of refugees has been treated by the Ozzies now too. 

You will also find that around the world, nations are coming to realize that they can't be as generous as they have been the past. Many are looking for ways to reform health care as a result.

I have come to think that a system like Germany's is the best choice for the US.  Because it does provide universal coverage(which is inevitable at this point not because its desirable) while seeing some of the benefits of markets.  Like the US employers pay the majority of the cost of insurance but unlike the US, employees choice the supplier.  The state picks up the cost for the unemployed but the unemployed still choice the supplier.  This is far superior to a single payer or provider system.
  
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Don_G
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Re: How come developed countries are able to provide universal healthcare?
Reply #17 - Oct 2nd, 2017 at 1:02pm
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ahhell wrote on Oct 2nd, 2017 at 12:54pm:
To answer the OP, in part because the US has provided them security for the last 70 years.  They've been able to save on military spending as a result. 



Excellent! you have come to accept the truth! Even though your excuses are arguable, the result is not.

Now continue to tell us the 'other' part.

Or see my post above on stepping in it and just stop doing it.
  
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burnsred
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Re: How come developed countries are able to provide universal healthcare?
Reply #18 - Oct 2nd, 2017 at 1:07pm
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The quick answer is that with government health care the private sector doesn't get to rake off exorbitant profit off the top.

Really?

How much profit does the private sector make and how much would not be "exorbitant?"

 
Not an easy question to answer without looking at individual cases.
Well, of course it isn't an easy answer.  Nor is it a quick answer.  But it is a needed answer if you want to support your case for making our health system more like Canada's.

Just blurting out generalizations and opinions with no facts to back them up isn't a good argument.  In the States we call those "talking points."  I'm not sure what you call them in Canada. 
  
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Don_G
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Re: How come developed countries are able to provide universal healthcare?
Reply #19 - Oct 2nd, 2017 at 1:16pm
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burnsred wrote on Oct 2nd, 2017 at 1:07pm:
Well, of course it isn't an easy answer.  Nor is it a quick answer.  But it is a needed answer if you want to support your case for making our health system more like Canada's.

Just blurting out generalizations and opinions with no facts to back them up isn't a good argument.  In the States we call those "talking points."  I'm not sure what you call them in Canada. 


The first link I came to.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/health/sd-me-healthcare-costs-20170318-...

Let the discussion begin.

oh, and btw, did you visit your doctor regularly? Regularly being what is considered as wise here in Canada?
  
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