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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is (Read 1848 times)
Jeff
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Re: Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is
Reply #130 - Dec 4th, 2017 at 4:06pm
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Don_G wrote on Dec 4th, 2017 at 11:41am:
So mr. libertarian is recommending government pass more laws!




No, he's mentioning very old laws, laws that were part of our common law before the United States was created... How do you not know that? I've talked about it enough.

Do you have memory problems or is it just that you are a dolt?
  
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burnsred
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Re: Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is
Reply #131 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 9:55am
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Jeff wrote on Dec 4th, 2017 at 8:40am:
Yes. I know about that sort of thing. It usually happens in areas where people in hoodies late at night or early in the morning have robbed someone/someplace lately, often repeatedly. Anyone with half a brain who happens to be walking innocently in such neighborhoods should know enough to wear a ball cap, make sure their face is visible, be polite to the officer (who is probably actually looking for a thief) and show him your ID.
The problem with doing that is that it encourages officers to feel that they are entitled to see an ID from anyone they ask it from.  The most common reaction to a person who declines to show ID when asks is to tell them that the law requires them to show it which is a flat lie in most situations. 

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I get sick of that ID crap too, but if you live in a high crime area and you wander around in the dark with your face covered, you can expect it.
That sounds very, very similar to "if you walk around in a short skirt, you can expect to get raped."  Police need more training in how to deal with law-abiding citizens about whom the are curious for whatever reason.  Curiosity, a hunch, suspicion, a vibe or any other motivation that a police officer has for thinking that a person not breaking the law should be questioned and ID'd are not reason enough for free people to give up our freedom however temporarily. 

I used to think exactly as you do.  The first time I saw a "first amendment audit" video I thought, "what a bunch of losers that have nothing better to do than interfere with police officers."  But then I saw more of them and the police were incredibly consistent in their reactions to law-abiding people who did not want to answer questions and/or show ID.  The first step was to lie and the second was to threaten arrest.  In only about one in ten cases did the officers actually get physical to force an identification which tells me that in the other nine of ten cases they were fully aware that they had no entitlement to the ID.


  
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Don_G
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Re: Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is
Reply #132 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 1:05pm
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burnsred wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 9:55am:
The problem with doing that is that it encourages officers to feel that they are entitled to see an ID from anyone they ask it from.  The most common reaction to a person who declines to show ID when asks is to tell them that the law requires them to show it which is a flat lie in most situations. 

That sounds very, very similar to "if you walk around in a short skirt, you can expect to get raped."  Police need more training in how to deal with law-abiding citizens about whom the are curious for whatever reason.  Curiosity, a hunch, suspicion, a vibe or any other motivation that a police officer has for thinking that a person not breaking the law should be questioned and ID'd are not reason enough for free people to give up our freedom however temporarily. 

I used to think exactly as you do.  The first time I saw a "first amendment audit" video I thought, "what a bunch of losers that have nothing better to do than interfere with police officers."  But then I saw more of them and the police were incredibly consistent in their reactions to law-abiding people who did not want to answer questions and/or show ID.  The first step was to lie and the second was to threaten arrest.  In only about one in ten cases did the officers actually get physical to force an identification which tells me that in the other nine of ten cases they were fully aware that they had no entitlement to the ID.




You realize that you're promoting an ideology that is contrary to Trump's ideals? There's evidence that he promotes more police power you know, even though he would try to say differently.

Trump's being portrayed by the rest of the world as the reincarnation of Hitler. Do you deny there's any ground to suspect that?

Police power goes hand in hand with a dictatorship.
  
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burnsred
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Re: Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is
Reply #133 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 2:34pm
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Don_G wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 1:05pm:
You realize that you're promoting an ideology that is contrary to Trump's ideals? There's evidence that he promotes more police power you know, even though he would try to say differently.

Trump's being portrayed by the rest of the world as the reincarnation of Hitler. Do you deny there's any ground to suspect that?

Police power goes hand in hand with a dictatorship.
Trump is a statist, no doubt.  What's your point?

  
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Don_G
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Re: Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is
Reply #134 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 2:40pm
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burnsred wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 2:34pm:
Trump is a statist, no doubt.  What's your point?



Trump being 'statist' doesn't seem to me to be relevant to the question. No more than whether or not he eats meat. Seriously!

My point is that Trump is being seen as dicatorial and that is not consistent with limiting police power. I can't put it any more succinctly than that. Do you agree or not?
  
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burnsred
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Re: Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is
Reply #135 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 2:44pm
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Don_G wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 2:40pm:
Trump being 'statist' doesn't seem to me to be relevant to the question. No more than whether or not he eats meat. Seriously!

My point is that Trump is being seen as dicatorial and that is not consistent with limiting police power. I can't put it any more succinctly than that. Do you agree or not?
He isn't actually "seen as" dictatorial by anyone except for complete morons.  He is presented as dictatorial by the media and by people who parrot the media line even though they don't believe it themselves.  If they do believe it then again they are complete morons.  Trump is a statist, but he's no more dictatorial than any other statist politician.



  
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Don_G
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Re: Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is
Reply #136 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 2:54pm
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burnsred wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 2:44pm:
He isn't actually "seen as" dictatorial by anyone except for complete morons.  He is presented as dictatorial by the media and by people who parrot the media line even though they don't believe it themselves.  If they do believe it then again they are complete morons.  Trump is a statist, but he's no more dictatorial than any other statist politician.



O.k. that's fine. You're standing your ground and that's a lot different from Jeff's usual running away after he calls me a dolt or some such?

I was referring to the world's perceptions of Trump being a dictator and I'll provide some evidence when I get time. It's not going to be parroting the leftist media line in your country, it will be in listening to worldwide opinion.

And I think it will adequately answer to your charge of those opinions being moronic.

Your feelings are hurt right now and you're acting more like a petulant child than is your normal character. Roll with the puches better and you will be able to hide your feelings better from me.

It's only because you ended up getting beaten up on healthcare when you saw Ron Paul's message on it.
  
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burnsred
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Re: Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is
Reply #137 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 3:03pm
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Don_G wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 2:54pm:
O.k. that's fine. You're standing your ground and that's a lot different from Jeff's usual running away after he calls me a dolt or some such?

I was referring to the world's perceptions of Trump being a dictator and I'll provide some evidence when I get time.
But where would you get that evidence except from some form of media?  So that would only be proof that the media presents Trump as dictatorial, not that the world perceives Trump as dictatorial.

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It's not going to be parroting the leftist media line in your country, it will be in listening to worldwide opinion.

And I think it will adequately answer to your charge of those opinions being moronic.
I look forward to the slightest evidence for the moronic accusation that Trump is more dictatorial than other presidents.


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Your feelings are hurt right now and you're acting more like a petulant child than is your normal character. Roll with the puches better and you will be able to hide your feelings better from me.
Classic projection, Don.

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It's only because you ended up getting beaten up on healthcare when you saw Ron Paul's message on it.
You mean the "Ron Paul 'doctors work for free' Plan?" 


  
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Don_G
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Re: Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is
Reply #138 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 3:06pm
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burnsred wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 3:03pm:
But where would you get that evidence except from some form of media?  So that would only be proof that the media presents Trump as dictatorial, not that the world perceives Trump as dictatorial.

I look forward to the slightest evidence for the moronic accusation that Trump is more dictatorial than other presidents.


Classic projection, Don.

You mean the "Ron Paul 'doctors work for free' Plan?" 




When I get the time it deserves I hope to show other sources than the world's media. We'll see?  Maybe some world leaders?
  
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burnsred
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Re: Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is
Reply #139 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 3:08pm
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Don_G wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 3:06pm:
When I get the time it deserves I hope to show other sources than the world's media. We'll see?  Maybe some world leaders?
  Maybe . . .

Hey, so I know that you're not just being an ass-clown, how about naming three world leaders right now who have said that Trump is a dictator.  Give the exact quotes, please!


  
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