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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is (Read 2801 times)
AlayneLeung
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Re: Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is
Reply #30 - Oct 6th, 2017 at 12:38pm
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I recommend improved education for persons, that want to become law persons, that they each get a Master's Degree (not a Bachelor's Degree) of Criminal Justice; and that the only law personnel that get guns are those that have at least a federalized B- GPA throughout their entire Master's Degree education, and after obtaining at least that GPA, then law persons each get to be intergalactic or Interpol or federal or state or local police officers.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is
Reply #31 - Oct 6th, 2017 at 12:51pm
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AlayneLeung wrote on Oct 6th, 2017 at 12:38pm:
I recommend improved education for persons, that want to become law persons, that they each get a Master's Degree (not a Bachelor's Degree) of Criminal Justice; and that the only law personnel that get guns are those that have at least a federalized B- GPA throughout their entire Master's Degree education, and after obtaining at least that GPA, then law persons each get to be intergalactic or Interpol or federal or state or local police officers.


A good point! But in my opinion you err and here's why.

You're putting too much stock in education and not enough in aptitude and attitude. This is a very common flaw in a lot of people's thinking.

I'll use this example because it comes to mind right now due to current discussions. People who believe in the god are in general less intelligent than others. (not always) But believers could actually make better police officers because of a higher morality. (again, not always)

Candidates for police work should be screened carefully for their attitudes and aptitudes. The biggest problem would be making sure those who are doing the screening are the right people. In most (some) cases the ones who would be chosen currently would be the 'wrong' ones. They would be police officers of course. That would likely include some very bright ones too!
  
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ahhell
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Re: Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is
Reply #32 - Oct 6th, 2017 at 12:57pm
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AlayneLeung wrote on Oct 6th, 2017 at 12:38pm:
I recommend improved education for persons, that want to become law persons, that they each get a Master's Degree (not a Bachelor's Degree) of Criminal Justice;
I've heard it suggested that criminal justice degrees are part of the problem as the curriculum is mostly written by cops for cops.  Most cops don't need advanced degrees they just need better lower level education in things like de-escalation and dealing with the mentally ill.

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and that the only law personnel that get guns are those that have at least a federalized B- GPA throughout their entire Master's Degree education, and after obtaining at least that GPA, then law persons each get to be intergalactic or Interpol or federal or state or local police officers.

What is a federalized B- GPA?

I think requiring additional training, emphasizing restraint and de-escalation for gun toting cops is a good Idea.  Its more a matter of specialized training and the right temperament not the level of education in my opinion.  Better selection criteria and accountability would go a lot farther than an longer period of more general education.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is
Reply #33 - Oct 6th, 2017 at 1:10pm
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ahhell wrote on Oct 6th, 2017 at 12:57pm:
[quote] .....and the right temperament not the level of education in my opinion.


Thank you.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is
Reply #34 - Oct 6th, 2017 at 4:41pm
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Don_G wrote on Oct 6th, 2017 at 1:10pm:
Thank you.
I agree, it takes strong minded people to be Police.

Their is a tendency in certain Policing jobs to start thinking that everybody is a dangerous thug who will kill you if they get the chance.

Making good decisions about partnering people up in situations where they are likely to need help is very useful. Police going into regressive ghettos filled with thugs are comforted by having a good reliable partner. It makes them less likely to panic or fly off the handle and shoot someone too.
  
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SnarkySack
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Re: Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is
Reply #35 - Oct 6th, 2017 at 11:04pm
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Making good decisions about partnering people up in situations where they are likely to need help is very useful. Police going into regressive ghettos filled with thugs are comforted by having a good reliable partner. It makes them less likely to panic or fly off the handle and shoot someone too.
Very good point.  The idea of having police officers operate alone instead of with a partner makes for good politics.  A mayor or elected chief whose force has been sending out two hundred officers in one hundred cars can claim to have "doubled the number of units on the street" by buying a hundred cars and not having to hire one hundred officers.

Besides making officers feel safer and actually be safer so they don't abuse citizens out of fear, having a partner would increase the odds of a good cop stopping a bad cop from being abusive. 

  

I used to be burnsred . . .
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Jeff
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Re: Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is
Reply #36 - Oct 7th, 2017 at 10:09am
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SnarkySack wrote on Oct 6th, 2017 at 11:04pm:
Very good point.  The idea of having police officers operate alone instead of with a partner makes for good politics.  A mayor or elected chief whose force has been sending out two hundred officers in one hundred cars can claim to have "doubled the number of units on the street" by buying a hundred cars and not having to hire one hundred officers.

Besides making officers feel safer and actually be safer so they don't abuse citizens out of fear, having a partner would increase the odds of a good cop stopping a bad cop from being abusive. 

Yes, thanks. Here in "deplorable" country where I live, all the Sheriffs are alone in their cars, but they regularly call for backup when the situation they perceive is making them nervous... and despite the fact that almost everyone owns guns, it's been years since anyone was shot in the County by either barbarians or Police. The last murder I know of, a guy ran over his girlfriend with his truck, repeatedly. Then he went over to his Dad's house and had a few beers while she died.

It's a strong argument for requiring that all trucks be registered.
  
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SnarkySack
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Re: Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is
Reply #37 - Oct 7th, 2017 at 10:20am
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The last murder I know of, a guy ran over his girlfriend with his truck, repeatedly. Then he went over to his Dad's house and had a few beers while she died.

It's a strong argument for requiring that all trucks be registered.
Exactly.  They should also limit the number of wheel bolts even if it means truck owners will have to do expensive alterations to their vehicles to comply.  Limit gas tanks to seven gallons or less to stop mass attacks by vehicle.  Plus outlaw aftermarket bumpers that make a truck look scary.  There's no reason for a private citizen to own an "assault vehicle" that scares anti-truckers.

  

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Jeff
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Re: Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is
Reply #38 - Oct 7th, 2017 at 10:33am
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SnarkySack wrote on Oct 7th, 2017 at 10:20am:
Exactly.  They should also limit the number of wheel bolts even if it means truck owners will have to do expensive alterations to their vehicles to comply.  Limit gas tanks to seven gallons or less to stop mass attacks by vehicle.  Plus outlaw aftermarket bumpers that make a truck look scary.  There's no reason for a private citizen to own an "assault vehicle" that scares anti-truckers.

Yes. And steps must be taken to ensure that mentally unstable people aren't allowed to own trucks.
  
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kaz
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Re: Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is
Reply #39 - Oct 10th, 2017 at 3:04pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Oct 4th, 2017 at 11:13am:
I got little in the way of specifics in my previous thread.  Maybe people don't like to be negative.  For better or worse, libertarianism means restraining police since they are one manifestation of the armed power of the government.  So, describing how they should act in accordance with principles of libertarianism will necessarily be primarily a list of "don'ts."

I'll start:

In a libertarian system, police officers do not

1)  Demand ID from a person not breaking the law "just so I know who I'm talking to" or "for my report I have to make" or "for my safety."  They can request ID, but if the law-abiding person refuses, they don't threaten arrest, ask what the person has to hide or lie that the U.S. requires that a citizen be ready to "show me your papers."

2)  Write a quota (or whatever the department calls its de facto quotas) of tickets in order to generate revenues for salaries, new body armor or nicer offices for the deputy chiefs.  A libertarian police force writes tickets only to those who break the law in a way that interferes with the right of other motorists to drive safely  They do not "tax" people hundreds of dollars for exceeding a speed limit that was set artificially low in order to make it easy for police to trap speeders.

3)  Lie to citizens in order to obtain confessions or other information from them.  Shockingly, our USSC has allowed police to lie to suspects.  How they think a confession can be relied on to be true when it originated from a lie is beyond me.  Clearly being lied to by a representative of the law is the opposite of due process.

Any more to add?  Any "do's?"





I agree with 1 and 2, but where do you get 3?    It's the job of citizens to know what our rights are.  It's not the government's job to do it.  Miranda was also a made up right by activist courts.  Miranda and your bullet point 3 protect criminals, not citizens.  The Constitution was written to protect the innocent, not the guilty
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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