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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is (Read 1199 times)
SkyChief
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Re: Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is
Reply #90 - Oct 14th, 2017 at 2:41pm
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Don_G wrote on Oct 14th, 2017 at 2:12pm:
Glad you asked! Here's rehabilitation taken to the extreme.

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is-so-successful-2014-1...



Dang. This a "prison cell" in Norway!?  ^ ^  ^  ^

Its nicer than my room!  I'm moving to Norway.  What crimes should I commit to qualify for these accommodations?
  
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Don_G
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Re: Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is
Reply #91 - Oct 14th, 2017 at 2:44pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 14th, 2017 at 2:38pm:
Right. Norway has one big city, and that big city has some violent gangs.

How are they doing at rehabilitating those violent gang members? That's still the question. 


It is the question and it'a a valid one. And my answer is that right now I don't know.

But for now Im going to take you back to the link I provided which states the very admirable statistics.

As I said to begin with, the concept is likely foreign to both of us. If it's too foreign to you then we can go elsewhere to maybe a larger country where better comparisons can be made.

However, I do believe this extreme case makes the point well enough.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is
Reply #92 - Oct 14th, 2017 at 2:51pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 14th, 2017 at 2:41pm:
http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/548221ec6bb3f74e55413336-480/halden-pri...

Dang. This a "prison cell" in Norway!?  ^ ^  ^  ^

Its nicer than my room!  I'm moving to Norway.  What crimes should I commit to qualify for these accommodations?


Very well demonstrated to make the point Chief! Notice the windows and no bars. Notice the bed with an actual mattress so the prisoner will be comfortable while sleeping. Notice the bureau in which he can put his personal belongings he is allowed to keep. Notice the floor that isn't bare concrete. Notice the lighting that isn't a bare bulb. Notice the desk and chair with which he can spend his time at some useful occupation!

Just plain notice the difference between that and American prisons. Or even Canadian prisons for that matter!

And you may not notice but I do, the fact that it likely doesn't cost any more to provide. In fact, it could cost less.

Come along with us in the debate Chief!
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is
Reply #93 - Oct 14th, 2017 at 3:14pm
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Don_G wrote on Oct 14th, 2017 at 2:51pm:
Just plain notice the difference between that and American prisons. Or even Canadian prisons for that matter!

And you may not notice but I do, the fact that it likely doesn't cost any more to provide. In fact, it could cost less.

I was being facetious, of course.  Windows, mattresses, and decent lighting are in most modern US prisons, (afaik) - but the windows are typically narrow slits which make escape impossible.

Someone in my (extended) family is a "career" criminal. He's a hard-core drug addict, so he's been in and out of jail/prison most of his adult life. He told me that accommodations in prison have been much better than he expected.

His main complaint about prisons were the lock-downs - he said there's one (or more) nearly every day.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is
Reply #94 - Oct 14th, 2017 at 3:24pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 14th, 2017 at 3:14pm:
I was being facetious, of course.  Windows, mattresses, and decent lighting are in most modern US prisons, (afaik) - but the windows are typically narrow slits which make escape impossible.

Someone in my (extended) family is a "career" criminal. He's a hard-core drug addict, so he's been in and out of jail/prison most of his adult life. He told me that accommodations in prison have been much better than he expected.

His main complaint about prisons were the lock-downs - he said there's one (or more) nearly every day.


I'm trying very hard to make this forum work well Chief, and I've found some success and cooperation on some of the threads today. But I'm only human and I have my faults too.

So I'll just say to you, it's quite often that you resort back to the 'facetious' excuse when you find your ass in the wringer. Reminds of the bullshit you tried to pull on us with the HOA! LOL
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is
Reply #95 - Oct 14th, 2017 at 5:39pm
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Yah, you've really got me on the ropes this time, Don_G.  I'll have to be more careful when I choose my battles!

Stay delusional!   Smiley
  
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Jeff
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Re: Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is
Reply #96 - Oct 14th, 2017 at 5:54pm
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Don_G wrote on Oct 14th, 2017 at 2:44pm:
It is the question and it'a a valid one. And my answer is that right now I don't know.


Not all that long ago, you were certain...

If you ever learn anything to help you with understanding this issue, let me know. Thanks.
  
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burnsred
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Re: Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is
Reply #97 - Oct 16th, 2017 at 6:15pm
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Quote:
Don_G wrote on Oct 14th, 2017 at 2:12pm:
Glad you asked! Here's rehabilitation taken to the extreme.

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is-so-successful-2014-1....

halden-prison.jpg

Dang. This a "prison cell" in Norway!?  ^ ^  ^  ^

Its nicer than my room!  I'm moving to Norway.  What crimes should I commit to qualify for these accommodations?
That looks like the kind of accommodations we should have for our welfare dolees.  Invite them to live in a group home with a clean, comfortable room instead of just giving them an apartment and lamenting that such housing gets torn up almost immediately.  Instead of food stamps, give them vouchers for the commissary which will only sell healthy food and snacks and three healthy meals per day in a cafeteria style dining facility.  Supervise them in taking care of their children and making sure their children go to school.  They pick three out of four of the following:  spend four hours a day looking for a job, four hours a day working for the group home, four hours a day with their children (quality time, no TV or computer games) and four hours a day studying or training to be more employable.  Cuts down on leisure time, I know.  But that's what you have to put up with if you want to live off the efforts of others. 
  
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Jeff
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Re: Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is
Reply #98 - Oct 16th, 2017 at 6:18pm
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burnsred wrote on Oct 16th, 2017 at 6:15pm:
That looks like the kind of accommodations we should have for our welfare dolees.
We give most of them better than that.

They crappity smack it up and blame the government for letting them crappity smack it up.

Not my problem, except for the government part and them making me pay for it.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Ok, HERE's What Libertarian Police Work is
Reply #99 - Oct 16th, 2017 at 6:38pm
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burnsred wrote on Oct 16th, 2017 at 6:15pm:
That looks like the kind of accommodations we should have for our welfare dolees.  Invite them to live in a group home with a clean, comfortable room instead of just giving them an apartment and lamenting that such housing gets torn up almost immediately.  Instead of food stamps, give them vouchers for the commissary which will only sell healthy food and snacks and three healthy meals per day in a cafeteria style dining facility.  Supervise them in taking care of their children and making sure their children go to school.  They pick three out of four of the following:  spend four hours a day looking for a job, four hours a day working for the group home, four hours a day with their children (quality time, no TV or computer games) and four hours a day studying or training to be more employable.  Cuts down on leisure time, I know.  But that's what you have to put up with if you want to live off the efforts of others. 


The only way you are going wrong is not in your recommendations that should be forced on some people. It's in your advocating force and not an emphasis on convincing them that those would be admirable things to do.

But then when  you say that your rate of recidivism is accountable to not keeping people locked up longer, what's the point of trying to teach you something different that would work and save you a lot of your money?

I don't think you thought that out and so you probably didn't mean it. But I can't think of any way you could reverse yourself and admit you were just being cocky.
  
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