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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Proof Positive the Right to Free Speech is "Endowed by Our Creator" (Read 520 times)
Don_G
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Re: Proof Positive the Right to Free Speech is "Endowed by Our Creator"
Reply #50 - Oct 12th, 2017 at 1:13pm
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You said: Quote:
Natural rights cannot be revoked.


I can't translate that so it makes any sense to me.
I'm stuck with believing that I can grant you any right you ask for, and then snatch it away an hour later.

I think you made a good point though on what burnsred was trying to do. Especially the reference to the 'creator'.

The reason it doesn't make sense is because he was dicking around with the word 'creator'.

Not worth arguing one way or the other. And I doubt he's going to clear anything up because he's trying out a silent treatment most likely.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Proof Positive the Right to Free Speech is "Endowed by Our Creator"
Reply #51 - Oct 12th, 2017 at 2:58pm
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Don_G wrote on Oct 12th, 2017 at 1:13pm:
I can't translate that so it makes any sense to me.
I'm stuck with believing that I can grant you any right you ask for, and then snatch it away an hour later.


I think you're confusing rights with priveleges - there's a huge difference.

Priveleges can be granted and revoked. Rights cannot.

The Dept. of Motor Vehicles grants me the privelege of driving on public roads (if I pass the license exam). If I'm caught driving while intoxicated, that privelege can (and usually will) be revoked.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Proof Positive the Right to Free Speech is "Endowed by Our Creator"
Reply #52 - Oct 12th, 2017 at 3:45pm
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Don_G wrote on Oct 12th, 2017 at 1:13pm:
I can't translate that so it makes any sense to me.
It's plain English dear Donat...

You claim it's not plain because you can't grasp the concept of individual rights. It's your failing.


« Last Edit: Oct 12th, 2017 at 5:24pm by Jeff »  
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Jeff
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Re: Proof Positive the Right to Free Speech is "Endowed by Our Creator"
Reply #53 - Oct 12th, 2017 at 5:24pm
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This was fairly popular until you killed it Donat. Way to go.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Proof Positive the Right to Free Speech is "Endowed by Our Creator"
Reply #54 - Oct 12th, 2017 at 5:32pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 12th, 2017 at 2:58pm:
The Dept. of Motor Vehicles grants me the privelege of driving on public roads...
You think traveling freely about your own country is a privilege?

Who paid for those "public" roads?

Have you ever driven in South Florida?
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Proof Positive the Right to Free Speech is "Endowed by Our Creator"
Reply #55 - Oct 12th, 2017 at 6:10pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 12th, 2017 at 5:32pm:
You think traveling freely about your own country is a privilege?

Interstate travel is a right to all US citizens. Operating a motor vehicle on California roadways is a privelege granted to licensed drivers by the DMV.  Don't believe me? Ask all the people who have had their vehicles impounded for driving without a license.

Jeff wrote on Oct 12th, 2017 at 5:32pm:
Who paid for those "public" roads?

Taxpayers.

Jeff wrote on Oct 12th, 2017 at 5:32pm:
Have you ever driven in South Florida?

No. I've never driven east of Prescott, Arizona.  What's unusual about south Florida?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Proof Positive the Right to Free Speech is "Endowed by Our Creator"
Reply #56 - Oct 12th, 2017 at 6:42pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 12th, 2017 at 6:10pm:
Interstate travel is a right to all US citizens. Operating a motor vehicle on California roadways is a privelege...
I see a conflict here...

Maybe I am wrong?  I thought one of the reasons we pay for a national government is to prevent state governments from denying our Rights?

If Kalifornia wants to deny fundamental Rights and succeed, they should. Some of my problems will be alleviated if they do. Thanks.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Proof Positive the Right to Free Speech is "Endowed by Our Creator"
Reply #57 - Oct 12th, 2017 at 6:45pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 12th, 2017 at 6:10pm:
No. I've never driven east of Prescott, Arizona.  What's unusual about south Florida?
Nothing. Almost everybody there thinks it's a Right to drive on the roads they've paid for.
  
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burnsred
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Re: Proof Positive the Right to Free Speech is "Endowed by Our Creator"
Reply #58 - Oct 13th, 2017 at 7:55am
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Interstate travel is a right to all US citizens. Operating a motor vehicle on California roadways is a privelege granted to licensed drivers by the DMV.  Don't believe me? Ask all the people who have had their vehicles impounded for driving without a license.
Just because a government acts as if a right is a privilege, doesn't convert the right into a privilege.  The Soviet Union and Nazi Germany acted as if living and being free were a privilege that they could take away for any or no reason. 

Travel is a right.  As Jeff points out, using roads our hard earned money pays for is a right.  Just because government thought of issuing driver's licenses as a way to generate revenue and increase profits doesn't make it any less of a blatant power play to violate our rights. 

We accept it because the justification/rationalization is - of course - safety.   Also because we are too busy trying to earn enough money so that what we are "allowed" to keep after the governments take their numerous cuts is enough to live on.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Proof Positive the Right to Free Speech is "Endowed by Our Creator"
Reply #59 - Oct 13th, 2017 at 11:54am
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burnsred wrote on Oct 13th, 2017 at 7:55am:
Just because a government acts as if a right is a privilege, doesn't convert the right into a privilege.  The Soviet Union and Nazi Germany acted as if living and being free were a privilege that they could take away for any or no reason. 


Comparing what is happening in your country to Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union is indicative of your frustration. But you're surely not alone because it's most likely the majority of Americans who are voicing their frustration and even contemplating revolution. I dount it will come to that.

I think it may change things in a positive way but I fear the odds are still great due to the powe that has been handed to the 1 or 2%. And now Trump aims to hand them even more!

Quote:
Travel is a right.  As Jeff points out, using roads our hard earned money pays for is a right.  Just because government thought of issuing driver's licenses as a way to generate revenue and increase profits doesn't make it any less of a blatant power play to violate our rights.


Making driver's licenses free could be a libertarian initiative as long as the lost revenue was made up with some other form of taxation if it's needed. However, driver's license fees are really a favourable form of taxation because it taxes the user to pay for those roads. A simple concept for libertarians who need to recognize some forms of taxation. 

[quote[We accept it because the justification/rationalization is - of course - safety.   Also because we are too busy trying to earn enough money so that what we are "allowed" to keep after the governments take their numerous cuts is enough to live on.
[/quote]

Demanding drivers are licensed is very rational from a safety POV of course. Don't sell short your other priorities you are mentioning by failing to recognize that drivers need to be screened by some authority in order to not allow the roads to be more dangerous than they already are. Statistically, there are nearly as many road traffic accidents as there are shootings.

Don't stop voicing your concerns, only try to aviod irrational extremism that hurts the libertarian cause more than benefits it.
  
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