Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Right to Work?
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 6 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Right to Work? (Read 584 times)
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 5805
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Right to Work?
Oct 12th, 2017 at 1:24pm
Print Post  
Is it wise for libertarians to support right to work laws?

http://www.nrtw.org/

In my opinion as a libertarian:  'right to work' is not an honest term to begin with. It's a term that's been invented, not by libertarians, to prevent workers from forming unions or belonging to effective unions that have power and some teeth.

This is counter to everything that libertarianism claims as rights and freedoms for the people.

Libertarians can't continue to be rightist, and for that matter they can't be leftists either. That isn't the issue on this topic. Libertarians must adhere to their principles of providing rights and freedoms to all!

If they don't then it just becomes a fake agenda.

The link says it all and doesn't pull any punches. It accomplishes exactly what it set out to accomplish. That is, it allows employers to dictate to workers, regardless of the wants and needs of workers.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 4720
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: Right to Work?
Reply #1 - Oct 12th, 2017 at 2:00pm
Print Post  
Everybody should have the freedom to work if they so choose. I don't think the government should interfere between employer/employee agreements.

If I'm the owner of a football team, the players are my employees. When they are wearing the uniform and drawing pay, I want demand that they behave in a way that promotes a positive image of my franchise.

If they kneel during the National Anthem while wearing my team's uniform, I will show them the sidewalk.

The government should not get involved, IMO.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 5805
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: Right to Work?
Reply #2 - Oct 12th, 2017 at 2:27pm
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Oct 12th, 2017 at 2:00pm:
Everybody should have the freedom to work if they so choose.


Point by point: Everybody must have the freedom to work. Period!

Quote:
I don't think the government should interfere between employer/employee agreements.


Government shouldn't have and doesn't have. Government has the right to enforce the law when a party is in violation of an agreement.

Quote:
If I'm the owner of a football team, the players are my employees. When they are wearing the uniform and drawing pay, I want demand that they behave in a way that promotes a positive image of my franchise.


Within the parameters set by the society in which they are operating. Certain demands of an employer or the employees are legitimate and some are not. There's no need to get into the details right now but we certainly should at some point.

Quote:
If they kneel during the National Anthem while wearing my team's uniform, I will show them the sidewalk.


My opinion is that that is correct. Keeping in mind that your decision to do so may have negative consequences on you. Or on the other hand, you may get away with it and lead the move to end the practice by players. (you may also want to consider that you could have taken the first step toward inviting government interference)

Quote:
The government should not get involved, IMO.


Only when the law is at question may the government get involved. That's not the case for the issue you've chosen.

------------------------------------------

Now we'll get back on topic and face the question head-on without trying to avoid some key parts of it.

You said: Quote:
Everybody should have the freedom to work if they so choose.


Which could perhaps qualify as one of your inalienable rights!

Here's another:
Quote me on this: Quote:
Workers and employers have an inalienable right to negotiate collective agreements between themselves without government interference.


Right to work laws are government interference in the rights of employees and employers.

It's a very simple concept Chief. The libertarian agenda fails if it can't be unbiased when it comes to this kind of question.

What a golden opportunity for libertarianism to make it's mark! Unfortunately, the sort of libertarianism you espouse is founded in bias. That means that unfortunately, you would have to throw out the baby with the bath water to fix it.

So let's start over with something that could actually work!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 5805
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: Right to Work?
Reply #3 - Oct 12th, 2017 at 2:39pm
Print Post  
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 4720
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: Right to Work?
Reply #4 - Oct 12th, 2017 at 2:47pm
Print Post  
Don_G wrote on Oct 12th, 2017 at 2:27pm:
It's a very simple concept Chief. The libertarian agenda fails if it can't be unbiased when it comes to this kind of question.

What a golden opportunity for libertarianism to make it's mark! Unfortunately, the sort of libertarianism you espouse is founded in bias. That means that unfortunately, you would have to throw out the baby with the bath water to fix it.

So let's start over with something that could actually work!

I'm not trying to be difficult, but none of this makes sense (to me).

Under "Right To Work" laws, employees in unionized workplaces may not be compelled to join a union, nor compelled to pay for any part of the cost of union representation, while generally receiving the same benefits as union members who do contribute.

I support this.  I worked many years in a CWA shop. I chose not to be in the Union. CWA withheld dues from me anyways.  This was back in the 80s and 90s so it might have been before Right To Work laws. 

Eh,, nvm. California never was a Right To Work state.  Darn. I was going to sue for back-pay.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 23081
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Right to Work?
Reply #5 - Oct 12th, 2017 at 3:40pm
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Oct 12th, 2017 at 2:47pm:
I worked many years in a CWA shop. I chose not to be in the Union. CWA withheld dues from me anyways.  This was back in the 80s and 90s so it might have been before Right To Work laws. 

Eh,, nvm. California never was a Right To Work state. 
So your previous statement is a fantasy? Yes.

Have you never read the S.Ct. majority opinion for Abood? I know that goes back a long way...

If you don't know the subject Chief, you shouldn't fantasize about it. Too much chance of being wrong.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 23081
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Right to Work?
Reply #6 - Oct 12th, 2017 at 3:56pm
Print Post  
Donat dear, forcing people to pay monthly tribute to government monopoly unions is not even close to any libertarian belief. It is fundamentally wrong.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 5805
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: Right to Work?
Reply #7 - Oct 12th, 2017 at 5:44pm
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Oct 12th, 2017 at 2:47pm:
I'm not trying to be difficult, but none of this makes sense (to me).

Under "Right To Work" laws, employees in unionized workplaces may not be compelled to join a union, nor compelled to pay for any part of the cost of union representation, while generally receiving the same benefits as union members who do contribute.

I support this.  I worked many years in a CWA shop. I chose not to be in the Union. CWA withheld dues from me anyways.  This was back in the 80s and 90s so it might have been before Right To Work laws. 

Eh,, nvm. California never was a Right To Work state.  Darn. I was going to sue for back-pay. 


I believe you when you say you're not trying to be difficult. It's just a conversation and I'm grateful to the forum owner for the right to bring it up as an idea.

Besides government interference the point I was trying to make was that 'right to work' laws are not what they are labelled as being. They are laws that destroy workers' rights to negotiate in fairness. A union without teeth is not really a union.

A worker without rights is not a person for the purpose of adherence to a libertarian agenda.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 5805
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: Right to Work?
Reply #8 - Oct 12th, 2017 at 5:45pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Oct 12th, 2017 at 3:56pm:
Donat dear, forcing people to pay monthly tribute to government monopoly unions is not even close to any libertarian belief. It is fundamentally wrong.


Government has nothing to do with the issue Jeff, other than interfering in workers' rights to work under a collective agreement.

I can only repeat the facts, I can't force you to understand.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 23081
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Right to Work?
Reply #9 - Oct 12th, 2017 at 6:35pm
Print Post  
Don_G wrote on Oct 12th, 2017 at 5:45pm:
Government has nothing to do with the issue Jeff...
Unions did not, and can not gain monopoly privileges  on their own. Only corrupt governments grant monopoly privileges.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 6
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Right to Work?
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy