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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Can Government Exist Without Theft by Taxation? (Read 955 times)
Jeff
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Re: Can Government Exist Without Theft by Taxation?
Reply #160 - Nov 11th, 2017 at 3:29pm
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Don_G wrote on Nov 11th, 2017 at 12:36pm:
Libertarians taking the ridiculous position that taxation is theft, isn't doing the libertarian cause any favours.

The party just can't continue to exist and grow when extremists are allowed to continue with that kind of nonsense rhetoric.

A more socially responsible position is obviously to find ways to lower taxes that are considered to be unjust and replace them with more just taxation.
I agree to the point where you start talking about "just" taxes. I don't think any taxes are "just", I only think they are necessary, and that the limited taxes allowed by the U.S. Constitution are as fair as taxes can be... As long as they are applied according to the Constitutional limitations.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Can Government Exist Without Theft by Taxation?
Reply #161 - Nov 11th, 2017 at 10:25pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 11th, 2017 at 3:26pm:
...What I keep telling you I oppose as illegal are taxes on wages and salaries that are not apportioned, but yes, that and the power of the Fed, joined with an interpretation of the Constitution that views the general welfare clause and the commerce clause as grants of general power to Congress have given us unlimited out of control government...

I think we're basically on the same page here. 

The Welfare Clause and the Commerce Clause are a tad over-reaching.

Like Obama and Don_G pointed out, our Constitution has some flaws... These can be corrected.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Can Government Exist Without Theft by Taxation?
Reply #162 - Nov 12th, 2017 at 7:11am
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SkyChief wrote on Nov 11th, 2017 at 10:25pm:
I think we're basically on the same page here. 

The Welfare Clause and the Commerce Clause are a tad over-reaching.

Like Obama and Don_G pointed out, our Constitution has some flaws... These can be corrected.
Of course the flaws Obama and Donat see are not the same flaws libertarians see, and the "corrections" they want would not act to re-establish limits on government, but would expand government power even further.

Turning a power to prevent states from interfering in free trade into a power to control our entire economy is much more than "a tad overreaching".

Viewing a limited government with specified powers and duties as being good for the nation as a whole is also completely different than holding that the government has been granted the power to take care of everyone as it sees fit.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Can Government Exist Without Theft by Taxation?
Reply #163 - Nov 12th, 2017 at 12:20pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 12th, 2017 at 7:11am:
Of course the flaws Obama and Donat see are not the same flaws libertarians see, and the "corrections" they want would not act to re-establish limits on government, but would expand government power even further.

Turning a power to prevent states from interfering in free trade into a power to control our entire economy is much more than "a tad overreaching".

Viewing a limited government with specified powers and duties as being good for the nation as a whole is also completely different than holding that the government has been granted the power to take care of everyone as it sees fit.

Which is just saying that nothing will change unless it's politically motivated by one side or the other.

For some reason it appears that the corrupt Scotus has not stooped to doing that yet. It has to be because extremism needs more than a simple majority.

Neither that which would be important to decent people like Obama, or psychopathic maniacs like Trump, can get that super majority required. The 2nd.  amendment nonsense is a case in point. Even though all it would really take is a more sensible interpretation of it.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Can Government Exist Without Theft by Taxation?
Reply #164 - Nov 12th, 2017 at 2:20pm
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Don_G wrote on Nov 12th, 2017 at 12:20pm:
The 2nd.  amendment nonsense is a case in point. Even though all it would really take is a more sensible interpretation of it.
Where in the Constitution do you see a grant of power to the national government to disarm people?
  
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Don_G
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Re: Can Government Exist Without Theft by Taxation?
Reply #165 - Nov 12th, 2017 at 2:49pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 12th, 2017 at 2:20pm:
Where in the Constitution do you see a grant of power to the national government to disarm people?


Likewise, where does government grant the people the right to kill so many of their fellow Americans with their guns?
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Can Government Exist Without Theft by Taxation?
Reply #166 - Nov 12th, 2017 at 3:06pm
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Don_G wrote on Nov 12th, 2017 at 2:49pm:
Likewise, where does government grant the people the right to kill so many of their fellow Americans with their guns?

I keep telling you

THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T GRANT RIGHTS TO ANYONE ! ! ! ! ! !

Jeez.  Read this over and over 20 times.  It should sink in eventually.  (I hope)
  
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