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burnsred
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Should the U.S. Invite Racists Into the Country?
Oct 31st, 2017 at 9:08pm
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Especially if they come from an area in which different kinds of racists are warring with each other over whose type of racism is the right kind of racism?  Should refugees from that kind of fighting be vetted in any way to see whether they are as racist as the culture they are leaving?  Would that be wise in order to protect the members of the various races that make up our diverse nation? 

Or should we assume that they are not racist until there is evidence that they are racist?  You know, besides the fact that they come from a culture that advocates race violence?

Because change one letter of that - make it rapist instead of racist - and the consensus seems to be 'sure, why not let them in.  what could go wrong?'
  
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Don_G
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Re: Should the U.S. Invite Racists Into the Country?
Reply #1 - Nov 1st, 2017 at 12:20am
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burnsred wrote on Oct 31st, 2017 at 9:08pm:
Especially if they come from an area in which different kinds of racists are warring with each other over whose type of racism is the right kind of racism?  Should refugees from that kind of fighting be vetted in any way to see whether they are as racist as the culture they are leaving?  Would that be wise in order to protect the members of the various races that make up our diverse nation? 

Or should we assume that they are not racist until there is evidence that they are racist?  You know, besides the fact that they come from a culture that advocates race violence?

Because change one letter of that - make it rapist instead of racist - and the consensus seems to be 'sure, why not let them in.  what could go wrong?'


Racism isn't those people's problem. The people you are cleverly trying not to refer to are people whose families and/or loved ones have been slaughtered under US bombs.

They will be mostly Muslims in the recent past of course. So you're asking if Muslims shouldn't be allowed to come to the US.

It's a tough one. Out of a million Muslims who were either related to a victim or knew a victim or even knew somebody who knew a victim, there is likely going to be at least one in that million who won't just let bygones be bygones. So you'll likely get 999,999 who will live in peace in their new country. That still won't be acceptable odds for racists like you.

Is it just a coincidence that you post this on the same day N.Y. got hit again? Do you think it was something to do with revenge or was it representative of the entire Muslim world?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Should the U.S. Invite Racists Into the Country?
Reply #2 - Nov 1st, 2017 at 8:14am
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burnsred wrote on Oct 31st, 2017 at 9:08pm:
Especially if they come from an area in which different kinds of racists are warring with each other over whose type of racism is the right kind of racism?  Should refugees from that kind of fighting be vetted in any way to see whether they are as racist as the culture they are leaving?  Would that be wise in order to protect the members of the various races that make up our diverse nation? 

Or should we assume that they are not racist until there is evidence that they are racist?  You know, besides the fact that they come from a culture that advocates race violence?


Tribalism is the root of racism and factionalism. If you can figure out a way to prevent lizard brained people from thinking and acting tribally, you can save the world.

Should we assume things about individuals because of the color of their skin or how they talk or where they are from or how they choose to worship (or not)?

You seem to assume that people are coming to America to change America into a racist culture that advocates violence... (I know, Donat dear thinks it always has been.)

I assume people are coming to America to escape violent racist cultures and very bad governments.

There will always be exceptions, but being born in Cuba doesn't mean you are automatically a communist...

"Vetting" to determine what people believe and therefore predict how they will act in the future is a fools game.
  
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burnsred
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Re: Should the U.S. Invite Racists Into the Country?
Reply #3 - Nov 1st, 2017 at 8:48am
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Racism isn't those people's problem. The people you are cleverly trying not to refer to are people whose families and/or loved ones have been slaughtered under US bombs.

They will be mostly Muslims in the recent past of course. So you're asking if Muslims shouldn't be allowed to come to the US.

It's a tough one. Out of a million Muslims who were either related to a victim or knew a victim or even knew somebody who knew a victim, there is likely going to be at least one in that million who won't just let bygones be bygones. So you'll likely get 999,999 who will live in peace in their new country. That still won't be acceptable odds for racists like you.
Is that a yes or a no to inviting racists into the country?

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Is it just a coincidence that you post this on the same day N.Y. got hit again? Do you think it was something to do with revenge or was it representative of the entire Muslim world?
It actually was a coincidence.  It is kind of difficult to post about any topic on a day that isn't either shortly after an Islamic terror attack, or an anniversary of an Islamic terror attack or some news pertaining to Islamic terror attacks.  Gosh, if only there were some common thread to these terror attacks . . .

Besides the use of vehicles, I mean . . .
  
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burnsred
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Re: Should the U.S. Invite Racists Into the Country?
Reply #4 - Nov 1st, 2017 at 8:49am
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Tribalism is the root of racism and factionalism. If you can figure out a way to prevent lizard brained people from thinking and acting tribally, you can save the world.

Should we assume things about individuals because of the color of their skin or how they talk or where they are from or how they choose to worship (or not)?

You seem to assume that people are coming to America to change America into a racist culture that advocates violence... (I know, Donat dear thinks it always has been.)

I assume people are coming to America to escape violent racist cultures and very bad governments.

"Vetting" to determine what people believe and therefore predict how they will act in the future is a fools game.
So, that's a yes?

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There will always be exceptions, but being born in Cuba doesn't mean you are automatically a communist...
That is a very good point.  Before we ever admitted a single immigrant from communist Cuba, we would have been justified in being concerned that they might bring their destructive socialist ideals with them.  What we saw in practice was that nearly all Cuban refugees hated communism for obvious reasons and try to be the opposite of communists in every way possible. 

Sadly, that has not been the case with immigrants from radical Muslim countries as we saw in New York only a short time ago.  (by coincidence, of course). 
« Last Edit: Nov 1st, 2017 at 10:27am by burnsred »  
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Re: Should the U.S. Invite Racists Into the Country?
Reply #5 - Nov 1st, 2017 at 12:09pm
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Don_G wrote on Nov 1st, 2017 at 12:20am:
Out of a million Muslims who were either related to a victim or knew a victim or even knew somebody who knew a victim, there is likely going to be at least one in that million who won't just let bygones be bygones.

One out of a million.  How poetic.   In reality, that number is actually much closer to 3 out of 10.

28% of American Muslims favor Shariah Law over US Constitutional Law.

https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/2015/06/23/nationwide-poll-of-us-muslims...
  
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Don_G
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Re: Should the U.S. Invite Racists Into the Country?
Reply #6 - Nov 1st, 2017 at 12:32pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 1st, 2017 at 8:14am:
Tribalism is the root of racism and factionalism. If you can figure out a way to prevent lizard brained people from thinking and acting tribally, you can save the world.

Should we assume things about individuals because of the color of their skin or how they talk or where they are from or how they choose to worship (or not)?

You seem to assume that people are coming to America to change America into a racist culture that advocates violence... (I know, Donat dear thinks it always has been.)

I assume people are coming to America to escape violent racist cultures and very bad governments.

There will always be exceptions, but being born in Cuba doesn't mean you are automatically a communist...

"Vetting" to determine what people believe and therefore predict how they will act in the future is a fools game.


You're understanding the problem but you're talking around it by referencing tribalism.

You're actually acknowledging Obama's wisdom on making sure to not alienate the entire Muslim world, because then that would become an impossible fight to win.

But Obama also knew that it was becoming  close to impossible anyway and he wanted to  minimize the damage.

The lion's share of the damage was done when the US began it's crusade of wars by attacking Iraq twice for control of it's oil wealth. There was a benefit to gain but he knew that there was a big downside to it.

You likely understand how to lessen the problem but you're talking to burnsred whose arrogance is intending to make it worse. He thinks the US can win against the Muslim world. The only thing that will ever change his mind is if the attack became up close and personal for him.

The real libertarian agenda is clear on what the course of action must be. Antiwar.com usually has a few who are aware and are speaking out. You won't find a burnsred there.
  
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burnsred
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Re: Should the U.S. Invite Racists Into the Country?
Reply #7 - Nov 1st, 2017 at 12:50pm
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You're actually acknowledging Obama's wisdom on making sure to not alienate the entire Muslim world,
What in the world did Obama do that was "making sure to not alienate the entire Muslim world?"  Besides bombing and killing more Mulims than any president before him and claiming the right to kill Muslim U.S. citizens in the U.S. with drones?

  
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burnsred
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Re: Should the U.S. Invite Racists Into the Country?
Reply #8 - Nov 1st, 2017 at 12:52pm
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He thinks the US can win against the Muslim world.
Burnsred doesn't want the US to "win" against the Muslim world.  I just want us to leave the Muslim world alone and have them leave us alone.  If "the Muslim world" is angry at us over the crusades still, fine.  But let's not be stoopid enough to invite all those angry people into this country.

  
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Re: Should the U.S. Invite Racists Into the Country?
Reply #9 - Nov 1st, 2017 at 1:13pm
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burnsred wrote on Nov 1st, 2017 at 12:50pm:
What in the world did Obama do that was "making sure to not alienate the entire Muslim world?"  Besides bombing and killing more Mulims than any president before him and claiming the right to kill Muslim U.S. citizens in the U.S. with drones?



In retrospect it's not hard to look back and see that what you are saying isn't true.

First of all, Obama's use of drones has likely been doubled by Trump. That's a rough guess but we'll have to resort to google to find actual numbers. The general statement has definitely been made.

As for bombing and killing more Muslims than any president before him, that's not true. The two illegal and phony wars against Iraq were started by Bush1 and Bush2.

But I wasn't making those points. You've just used that to avoid talking about my point.

Obama was responsible for the situation that has developed in Syria. It was by cooperation with Putin and it was during his presidency. Intentional or fluked, you be the judge. I have Jeff with me saying it was intentional.

And I predict that the Iran deal that was successfully negotiated by Obama/Kerry will hold. Simply because Iran is honouring the deal and the other parties are convinced of that. So once again, Trump's hands are tied because of Obama's maneuvering.

Can you offer up a rebuttal on those issues? Regardless of anything you say, you have placed yourself on the prowar side again burnsred. The reason why you can be so easily led to that position is getting pretty obvious. That's where you live and it's your cross to bear on any libertarian forum you will ever find.

You're going to have to deal with it here.
  
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