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BobK71
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The Left-Right Divide Is An Illusion
Nov 1st, 2017 at 8:54am
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There are real differences between small-government and big-government advocates.  But both the left and the right really serve the top state-bank elites at the expense of the public.

No mainstream figure on the left or right will challenge the elite control of money and other core financial assets at the expense of free markets, at the center of the world system.  Few will challenge the US imperial agenda of using 'regime change' and other leverage to force foreign governments to help support its financial bubble.

The elites find the left useful when it comes time to bandaid up the pain caused by their system to voters.  They find the right useful when it comes time to use austerity policies to sustain the trust in their financial assets, for the time being.

But, however free-market the thoughts of the right may be, they never rise to the level of free-market money.  However inequality-conscious the thoughts of the left may be, they rarely touch the inequality that favors Americans over the rest of the world, even though it operates under the same dynamics as the inequality they detest.

The social left-right divide is even more removed from reality.  The British global elites naturally cultivated the idea of Anglo-Saxon superiority to maintain the world's trust in their financial bubble.  When global financial power must pass to a country of immigrants, the dominant ethos must change.  Otherwise, who would trust US-issued assets?

Though racial superiority and equality are directly opposed to each other, they both served their elite-driven agenda in their time.  Average people were caught in a generations-long whiplash.

It should never have been the left against the right.  It should have been the people on both sides against the elites on both sides.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: The Left-Right Divide Is An Illusion
Reply #1 - Nov 1st, 2017 at 11:27am
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I've said this for years.  That's why we call them the UniParty. Both wings of the UniParty Vulture want 3 things:

• Big Government

• Big Taxes

• Big Debt

They disagree on how the Big Taxes are to be spent - Dems want Handouts and entitlements, Repubs want money funneled into the Military Industrial for warmaking/foreign intervention... And crony defense contracts.

Both wings know that with debt and taxes, its easy to control the citizens.  The Libertarian Party is the Anti-UniParty
  
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burnsred
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Re: The Left-Right Divide Is An Illusion
Reply #2 - Nov 1st, 2017 at 11:47am
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Dems want Handouts and entitlements, Repubs want money funneled into the Military Industrial for warrmaking/intervention... And crony defense contracts.
Even with that, there is plenty of overlap.  When was the last time a Repub spoke our for reducing welfare or a Dem spoke out for reducing defense spending?
  
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SkyChief
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Re: The Left-Right Divide Is An Illusion
Reply #3 - Nov 1st, 2017 at 12:18pm
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burnsred wrote on Nov 1st, 2017 at 11:47am:
Even with that, there is plenty of overlap.  When was the last time a Repub spoke our for reducing welfare or a Dem spoke out for reducing defense spending?

Good point.   Smiley
  
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Don_G
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Re: The Left-Right Divide Is An Illusion
Reply #4 - Nov 1st, 2017 at 12:59pm
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BobK71 wrote on Nov 1st, 2017 at 8:54am:
There are real differences between small-government and big-government advocates.  But both the left and the right really serve the top state-bank elites at the expense of the public.


You're right Bob, but the message falls on deaf ears because those who you are talking to in America are the culprits and so only feel a need to gloss it over. But you're also missing a key point and that is, there is no real honest left in US government.

Quote:
No mainstream figure on the left or right will challenge the elite control of money and other core financial assets at the expense of free markets, at the center of the world system.  Few will challenge the US imperial agenda of using 'regime change' and other leverage to force foreign governments to help support its financial bubble.


And again, so true.

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The elites find the left useful when it comes time to bandaid up the pain caused by their system to voters.  They find the right useful when it comes time to use austerity policies to sustain the trust in their financial assets, for the time being.


Not as obvious to me but nothing I can't argue against that  being a factor in the overall problem.

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But, however free-market the thoughts of the right may be, they never rise to the level of free-market money.  However inequality-conscious the thoughts of the left may be, they rarely touch the inequality that favors Americans over the rest of the world, even though it operates under the same dynamics as the inequality they detest.


Spot on! I would just say it in a little different way that means the same thing. The free market has been fixed to give a leg up to the wealthy at the expense of the entire middle class.

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The social left-right divide is even more removed from reality.  The British global elites naturally cultivated the idea of Anglo-Saxon superiority to maintain the world's trust in their financial bubble.  When global financial power must pass to a country of immigrants, the dominant ethos must change.  Otherwise, who would trust US-issued assets?


There is a social left-right divide in other countries that still exists but it's scorned by Americans as being contrary to the American way.


Quote:
It should never have been the left against the right.  It should have been the people on both sides against the elites on both sides.


The people 'are' the left, as opposed to the US left/right to which you refer. It will always be so, regardless of the label attached.

Bernie Sanders hinted at a new left and so did Trump. Trump promised it to his followers but it was all lies. Nobody should have been fooled by a corporate psychopath. I think that a lot of the reason why the common people were fooled by Trump is because they had already been hoodwinked into believing that the answer to their problems would have to come from a rebuilding of an honest 'right'.

That is wrong because the answer is only going to come from a building of an honest left. Not a rebuilding because it likely never did exist.

The American way of the 'right' can no longer work in the 21st. century. There is too much competition in the world now and that which kept America strong has started to be challenged. The pie is going to be divided.
  
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BobK71
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Re: The Left-Right Divide Is An Illusion
Reply #5 - Nov 6th, 2017 at 12:34pm
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SkyChief wrote on Nov 1st, 2017 at 11:27am:
I've said this for years.  That's why we call them the UniParty. Both wings of the UniParty Vulture want 3 things:

• Big Government

• Big Taxes

• Big Debt

They disagree on how the Big Taxes are to be spent - Dems want Handouts and entitlements, Repubs want money funneled into the Military Industrial for warmaking/foreign intervention... And crony defense contracts.

Both wings know that with debt and taxes, its easy to control the citizens.  The Libertarian Party is the Anti-UniParty


Feeding off the productivity of the public is fundamentally what it's all about.

But by far the biggest piece of Big Government is elite-controlled money.  The distortion and pain are everywhere in the economy, and yet it's hidden enough that nobody even thinks of it as Big Government.  How ingenious!

Also, a favorite saying is: Republicans will talk spending cuts, but only really do tax cuts.  Democrats will talk tax hikes, but only really do spending increases.  Debt is a truly bipartisan achievement!
  
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BobK71
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Re: The Left-Right Divide Is An Illusion
Reply #6 - Nov 6th, 2017 at 12:35pm
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Testing.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: The Left-Right Divide Is An Illusion
Reply #7 - Nov 6th, 2017 at 12:53pm
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BobK71 wrote on Nov 6th, 2017 at 12:34pm:
...Republicans will talk spending cuts, but only really do tax cuts.  Democrats will talk tax hikes, but only really do spending increases.  Debt is a truly bipartisan achievement!

This is why I oppose Trump's proposed Income Tax cuts. He failed to include the necessary spending cuts which need to go hand-in-hand with any tax cut.
  
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BobK71
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Re: The Left-Right Divide Is An Illusion
Reply #8 - Nov 6th, 2017 at 1:11pm
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Don_G wrote on Nov 1st, 2017 at 12:59pm:
You're right Bob, but the message falls on deaf ears because those who you are talking to in America are the culprits and so only feel a need to gloss it over. But you're also missing a key point and that is, there is no real honest left in US government.


Have you seen the movie 'The Great Beauty?'  The guy who holds the keys to all the great museums gives a 'private' tour at night to his friends.  When asked why the curators trust him with the keys, he says, 'because I'm honest.'

Honesty is not the real issue; the real issue is having a system where only honesty is rewarded.  The problem with the US is simply that imperial power and wealth over the decades have made it so easy to be dishonest.

Fundamentally, rewarding honest work is the appeal of the free market system.  What the imperial system does is to dismantle free markets piece by piece, to be replaced by various rackets  (medicine, higher education, banking, real estate, etc.), and thus alter the character of the people, until the country is hardly recognizable, if its founders were to awake from the grave.

Don_G wrote on Nov 1st, 2017 at 12:59pm:
Spot on! I would just say it in a little different way that means the same thing. The free market has been fixed to give a leg up to the wealthy at the expense of the entire middle class.


I have no problem with people getting rich by inventing better products.  The problem is that most rich Americans today are directly or indirectly getting a piece of the money creation by the Fed.  (In most cases, they're inventing better products *and* getting an indirect subsidy from the Fed!)

Don_G wrote on Nov 1st, 2017 at 12:59pm:
The people 'are' the left, as opposed to the US left/right to which you refer. It will always be so, regardless of the label attached.

Bernie Sanders hinted at a new left and so did Trump. Trump promised it to his followers but it was all lies. Nobody should have been fooled by a corporate psychopath. I think that a lot of the reason why the common people were fooled by Trump is because they had already been hoodwinked into believing that the answer to their problems would have to come from a rebuilding of an honest 'right'.

That is wrong because the answer is only going to come from a building of an honest left. Not a rebuilding because it likely never did exist.

The American way of the 'right' can no longer work in the 21st. century. There is too much competition in the world now and that which kept America strong has started to be challenged. The pie is going to be divided.

  
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Don_G
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Re: The Left-Right Divide Is An Illusion
Reply #9 - Nov 6th, 2017 at 3:53pm
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BobK, the problem as I see it is that the US doesn't have a left in government and so no reform can possibly come from the left and be favourable to middle class and less wealthy people

That's evidenced in hearing even poor people promoting the right and the American way. That is, support the ideas of the right because some day you will be one of them.

It's an entire headspace of the average American who considers it treasonous to resist such indoctrination.

Perhaps it's hard to see from within America. I guarantee you it's crystal clear from without.
  
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