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burnsred
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Is it Wrong to Call Sayfullo Saipov an Ingrate?
Nov 1st, 2017 at 9:38pm
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Is that racist?

How long should he be imprisoned?  Just long enough for him to be rehabilitated?  How will we know when that is?
  
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Don_G
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Re: Is it Wrong to Call Sayfullo Saipov an Ingrate?
Reply #1 - Nov 2nd, 2017 at 3:47pm
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burnsred wrote on Nov 1st, 2017 at 9:38pm:
Is that racist?

How long should he be imprisoned?  Just long enough for him to be rehabilitated?  How will we know when that is?


I have to commend you for your approach to the problem First I would suggest that in my country, the emphasis isn't totally on the crime that has been committed, it is also on the evidence that the criminal has been rehabilitated and won't reoffend.

In his case, my personal approach would be to begin to re-educate him on the fact that religious beliefs are all superstitions. That would likely result in total rehabilitation in his case, even though it might drive him into a depression that could end with suicide.

However, having said that, I realize that it would be impossible even in my country. Perhaps in China or Russia? My country isn't socially sophisticated enough to honestly and totally reject all reglitious superstitious beliefs. And it wouldn't be genuine if it wasn't all religions being rejected by government. None are more real or legitimate than any other.

But perhaps in China or Russia! I'm asking the question because I suspect that government in those two countries has become capable of arriving at that decision, even though there are still pockets of religious corruption that government has largely taken the position of not interfering with. That didn't work, thereby demonstrating a failure of communism

But lo and behold, a triumph of communism has become an evident fact at the same time. Government is almost certainly risen to the level at which it can deal with such problems such as this particular criminal.

And so burnsred, it's a problem that can't be properly dealth with in the USl Your country will either have to house him for life or execute him. The first soaks the libertarian tax payer and the second is medieval and unacceptable in our modern world.

Maybe those commies would end up executing him too? I don't know if either country still pactices that form of punishment. But at least they have an alternative that can be considered libertarian and won't soak you the tax payer for ever maybe?
  
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burnsred
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Re: Is it Wrong to Call Sayfullo Saipov an Ingrate?
Reply #2 - Nov 2nd, 2017 at 4:19pm
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But it's OK to say he's an ingrate?

The hand that feeds you seems to be the favorite meal in the third world.

  
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Re: Is it Wrong to Call Sayfullo Saipov an Ingrate?
Reply #3 - Nov 2nd, 2017 at 4:27pm
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burnsred wrote on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 4:19pm:
But it's OK to say he's an ingrate?

The hand that feeds you seems to be the favorite meal in the third world.



Absolutely an ingrate! But too tame to describe him. in my opinion.

But you can't run from acknowledging the revenge factor. I would suggest that some Imam has convinced him that Americans slaughtered millions of Muslims. Do you think so? Do you think Americans did?

How did you like my idea on rehabilitation? Couldn't it be said to be pretty much a foolproof accomplishment if indeed it could be accomplished? His religion motivated him to kill Americans in revenge and when that religion is systemacticaally destroyed n his mind, can he ever want to reoffend?
  
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Re: Is it Wrong to Call Sayfullo Saipov an Ingrate?
Reply #4 - Nov 2nd, 2017 at 4:29pm
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A question for you burnsred. If an Imam was caught saying that Americans slaughtered millions of Muslims, should he be arrested for saying it.

It's a libertarian question isn't it! It's one I could hook the chief into answering but I would have to ask it in another way.
  
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Re: Is it Wrong to Call Sayfullo Saipov an Ingrate?
Reply #5 - Nov 2nd, 2017 at 8:51pm
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Absolutely an ingrate! But too tame to describe him. in my opinion.
Good, good.

Quote:
But you can't run from acknowledging the revenge factor. I would suggest that some Imam has convinced him that Americans slaughtered millions of Muslims. Do you think so? Do you think Americans did?
Yes, Americans slaughtered millions of Muslims.  Yes, some Imam used that fact to motivate this attack.  Along with a healthy dose of Jew-baiting, of course.

Quote:
How did you like my idea on rehabilitation? Couldn't it be said to be pretty much a foolproof accomplishment if indeed it could be accomplished? His religion motivated him to kill Americans in revenge and when that religion is systemacticaally destroyed n his mind, can he ever want to reoffend?
A religion that promises sexually repressed young men a sexually charged paradise as a  reward would be hard to de-program.  I'd certainly favor trying it though, with one condition:

Whoever makes the final decision to release such a rehabilitated former homicidal Muslim inmate must allow the inmate to live in his home until the inmate can afford his own house which must be right next door to the person deciding on the release.  That need only last as long as the original sentence, though.

Are you willing to be the first volunteer? 
 

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A question for you burnsred. If an Imam was caught saying that Americans slaughtered millions of Muslims, should he be arrested for saying it.
Of course not.  In a libertarian system, one cannot be arrested for lying much less telling the truth.

Quote:
It's a libertarian question isn't it!
Yes, and there is only one libertarian answer.

Should a person be arrested or in any way suffer consequences for saying that far more Muslims are slaughtered by Muslims than by Americans?
  
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Don_G
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Re: Is it Wrong to Call Sayfullo Saipov an Ingrate?
Reply #6 - Nov 2nd, 2017 at 11:09pm
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burnsred wrote on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 8:51pm:
Good, good.

Yes, Americans slaughtered millions of Muslims.  Yes, some Imam used that fact to motivate this attack.  Along with a healthy dose of Jew-baiting, of course.


I don't get your reference to jeo-baiting.

A religion that promises sexually repressed young men a sexually charged paradise as a  reward would be hard to de-program.  I'd certainly favor trying it though, with one condition: [/quote]

It's not to be accepted as here on earth but your point is well taken that it's much more attractive award than a set of wings. Which physics would dictate, couldn't get you off the ground anyway. or cloud, whatever.

Quote:
Whoever makes the final decision to release such a rehabilitated former homicidal Muslim inmate must allow the inmate to live in his home until the inmate can afford his own house which must be right next door to the person deciding on the release.  That need only last as long as the original sentence, though.

Are you willing to be the first volunteer? 


I certainly would, providing he was rehabed. And that was the whole idea. But America can't do it, as I've told you and Canada can't either. Maybe Russia or China could.
 

Quote:
Of course not.  In a libertarian system, one cannot be arrested for lying much less telling the truth.


In theory burnsred but not in practice. I can say that even before it's been tried out in practice.

Yes, and there is only one libertarian answer.

Quote:
Should a person be arrested or in any way suffer consequences for saying that far more Muslims are slaughtered by Muslims than by Americans?


No! You should have known how I would answer that. As a question it's crystal clear. As a statement? Well, that's not what it was so we'll end it there.

In important matters concerning this guy, Trump has shot his mouth off saying that he'll get capital punishment. Legal experts are having a field day with it.

Trump has done what no other president has done in such an egregious manner. He has no way of fixing what he said. He is the president who told every prospective juror out there.
  
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burnsred
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Re: Is it Wrong to Call Sayfullo Saipov an Ingrate?
Reply #7 - Nov 3rd, 2017 at 10:04am
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Whoever makes the final decision to release such a rehabilitated former homicidal Muslim inmate must allow the inmate to live in his home until the inmate can afford his own house which must be right next door to the person deciding on the release.  That Quote:
need only last as long as the original sentence, though.

Are you willing to be the first volunteer?


I certainly would, providing he was rehabed. And that was the whole idea. But America can't do it, as I've told you and Canada can't either. Maybe Russia or China could.
So you're hawking a completely unrealistic system.  Good job.

In the real world, can that dude be rehabbed enough that you would let him live with your family?

If not, then we can execute him which I oppose or house him for life.  We f'cked up with this guy and it's too late to unf'ck the situation.  What we can do is stop the f'ckups by ending immediately that idiotic "diversity visa" program.
  
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Re: Is it Wrong to Call Sayfullo Saipov an Ingrate?
Reply #8 - Nov 3rd, 2017 at 12:36pm
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burnsred wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 10:04am:
Whoever makes the final decision to release such a rehabilitated former homicidal Muslim inmate must allow the inmate to live in his home until the inmate can afford his own house which must be right next door to the person deciding on the release.  That
So you're hawking a completely unrealistic system.  Good job.

In the real world, can that dude be rehabbed enough that you would let him live with your family?

If not, then we can execute him which I oppose or house him for life.  We f'cked up with this guy and it's too late to unf'ck the situation.  What we can do is stop the f'ckups by ending immediately that idiotic "diversity visa" program.


You've got into two different topics. The one I'm interested in pursuing is the one on rehab.

Yes, if he was considered to be rehabbed then he could live with my family or even next door. Why not?

Seriously, why not? He's been rehabbed!

No need to even ask the question of me. I would subscribe totally to the system in Norway we've talked about.

Continue the discussion or just put it off to two widely varying opinions. Personalities? Politics? ideologies?

I think mine is more libertarian.

The emphasis is always better placed on rehabilitation as opposed to punishment. Wouldn't that be a christian virtue?
  
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Re: Is it Wrong to Call Sayfullo Saipov an Ingrate?
Reply #9 - Nov 3rd, 2017 at 2:51pm
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Yes, if he was considered to be rehabbed then he could live with my family or even next door. Why not?

Seriously, why not? He's been rehabbed!
Now I know how honest you are.
  
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