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SkyChief
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Millennials Would Rather Live In Socialist Or Communist Nation
Nov 5th, 2017 at 12:53pm
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In the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation’s “Annual Report on US Attitudes toward Socialism,” 58% of the up-and-coming generation opted for Socialism or Communism, compared to 42% who said they were in favor of capitalism.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/nov/4/majority-millennials-want-live-s...

This is somewhat distubing.  How could this happen? 
  
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Don_G
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Re: Millennials Would Rather Live In Socialist Or Communist Nation
Reply #1 - Nov 5th, 2017 at 1:12pm
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SkyChief wrote on Nov 5th, 2017 at 12:53pm:
In the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation’s “Annual Report on US Attitudes toward Socialism,” 58% of the up-and-coming generation opted for Socialism or Communism, compared to 42% who said they were in favor of capitalism.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/nov/4/majority-millennials-want-live-s...

This is somewhat distubing.  How could this happen? 


It's indicative of a lot of what I've been saying so I'll explain my POV in hopes it may cause some others to think on it.

To begin with, millenials are mostly anti-establishment.

If the question was asked as Communism/Socialism as opposed to Capitalism then it was fatally flawed right from the start.

The don't want Communism/Socialism but they weren't given another choice they could consider acceptable.

The same problem would arise if the question was asked on this forum, even though hardly anybody would choose communism/socialism. If they were honest they would refuse to answer because they would be legitimizing the status quo, and that's just exactly what they don't want to do.

And so, the explanation for the answer the millenials gave, is simply that they weren't given that which they almost certainly understand to be their choice.

And that is, wait for it! wait for it!

Socially Responsible Capitalism!

Or even just dillute that down to mean, 'social' responsibility in government.

I challenge any pseudo-libertarian to come up with a better answer. And fwiw, my answer is that they want real liberty. We can call that libertarianism.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Millennials Would Rather Live In Socialist Or Communist Nation
Reply #2 - Nov 5th, 2017 at 1:15pm
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Well done for a change Chief. You thought you were going to hook me into applauding their choice but that's because you're too stupid to understand the issue.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Millennials Would Rather Live In Socialist Or Communist Nation
Reply #3 - Nov 5th, 2017 at 1:56pm
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Don_G wrote on Nov 5th, 2017 at 1:12pm:
And fwiw, my answer is that they want real liberty. We can call that libertarianism.

But socialism and communism have never been very conducive to self-owenership and free market.  In fact, these forms of government are exactly opposite of libertarian ideals.   

You sound very confused, Don_G.     Much like the Millennials who favor socialism or communism.

Don_G wrote on Nov 5th, 2017 at 1:15pm:
You thought you were going to hook me into applauding their choice but that's because you're too stupid to understand the issue.


It wasn't my intention to "hook" anybody into applauding their choice.  Only to raise awareness of a paradigm shift of a social group's thinking about libertarianism.


  
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burnsred
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Re: Millennials Would Rather Live In Socialist Or Communist Nation
Reply #4 - Nov 5th, 2017 at 3:09pm
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And fwiw, my answer is that they want real liberty.
You misunderstanding the difference between liberty and license.  Your idea of liberty would be for marijuana to be legal.  That's not libertarianism nor much of a step in the right direction, really.  Because the point of libertarianism is not for government to "allow" us to smoke marijuana while at the same time trying to "liberate" us from the "opiod" crises.  The point is to keep the government so small that it has no resources with which to control or even monitor  what we put in our own bodies. 

  
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Re: Millennials Would Rather Live In Socialist Or Communist Nation
Reply #5 - Nov 5th, 2017 at 3:25pm
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burnsred wrote on Nov 5th, 2017 at 3:09pm:
You misunderstanding the difference between liberty and license.  Your idea of liberty would be for marijuana to be legal.


Yes, it ertainly is but I also understand it's a little more complicated than that. That's likely giving you more than anybody else on this forum is going to offer.

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  That's not libertarianism nor much of a step in the right direction, really.


No, it's not much of a step for sure. In the opinion of most libertarians it's probably considered a baby step. 

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Because the point of libertarianism is not for government to "allow" us to smoke marijuana while at the same time trying to "liberate" us from the "opiod" crises.  The point is to keep the government so small that it has no resources with which to control or even monitor  what we put in our own bodies. 

 


That statement will work with the people on this forum who suppose themselves to be libertarians. But it doesn't work for me. I don't think it practical enough to expect to ever have that. And why would you want it?

You haven't thought through what you seem to be asking for.

Good government is constantly trying to prevent free enterprise companies from poisoning you, leaving you vunerable to being killed, stealing all your money, selling you junk without providing consumer protection, or just otherwise having your lives destroyed by free market greed. There are so many examples of this being true. Let's take a simple one: Cars wouldn't have seat belts or air bags if government hadn't mandated them to be necessary.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Millennials Would Rather Live In Socialist Or Communist Nation
Reply #6 - Nov 5th, 2017 at 3:46pm
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“This troubling turn highlights widespread historical illiteracy in American society regarding socialism and the systemic failure of our education system to teach students about the genocide, destruction, and misery caused by communism since the Bolshevik Revolution one hundred years ago,” Mr. Smith said in a statement.


Isn't it a lot more likely that they have taken recent reallife events of America's behaviour and compared it to that which may or may not be true of communism before WW2?

I think they've been sold completely on communists hiding under their beds and believe it too. But that's not something that can compare with their country's slaughter of over a million Iraqis in a war that was waged for false pretenses.

In the final analysis, Americans want a much better form of capitalism. Millenials relate that to socialism and they're not totally wrong on that. They know the Scandinavian countries exist and they've probably heard that the people are the happiest in the entire world.
  
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Re: Millennials Would Rather Live In Socialist Or Communist Nation
Reply #7 - Nov 5th, 2017 at 7:05pm
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The now Admitted non-Libertarian Wrote:

Quote:
Because the point of libertarianism is not for government to "allow" us to smoke marijuana while at the same time trying to "liberate" us from the "opiod" crises.  The point is to keep the government so small that it has no resources with which to control or even monitor  what we put in our own bodies.

That statement will work with the people on this forum who suppose themselves to be libertarians. But it doesn't work for me.
Thanks for admitting it.
Quote:
There are so many examples of this being true. Let's take a simple one: Cars wouldn't have seat belts or air bags if government hadn't mandated them to be necessary.
Or they would be available as options for those who choose to pay for them.  What's your point?  That cars are safer because of government regulation?  They'd be safer still if they were banned altogether and we were required to take public transportation.  Would you agree with a move like that by the government in the name of safety?


  
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Don_G
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Re: Millennials Would Rather Live In Socialist Or Communist Nation
Reply #8 - Nov 5th, 2017 at 7:49pm
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burnsred wrote on Nov 5th, 2017 at 7:05pm:
[b][color=#ff0000]

Or they would be available as options for those who choose to pay for them.  What's your point?  That cars are safer because of government regulation?  They'd be safer still if they were banned altogether and we were required to take public transportation.  Would you agree with a move like that by the government in the name of safety?



Now you're just being silly.
  
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