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thermf5
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are co op biznesses antilibertarain
Nov 6th, 2017 at 8:02pm
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a co-op when it come to bizness its a bizness where every member holds equal sheres of the company and vote on consensus to get things done what is the libertatain veiw on this
  
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ahhell
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Re: are co op biznesses antilibertarain
Reply #1 - Nov 7th, 2017 at 9:23am
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People should be allowed to associate how ever they please, including forming co-ops.   

Anarcho-syndicalists would more or less force all workers in to co-ops, that would be anti-libertarian.
  
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Crystallas
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Re: are co op biznesses antilibertarain
Reply #2 - Nov 7th, 2017 at 10:21am
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Is it by voluntary association?

The only argument otherwise would be because other government policies forced people to use sub-optimal conclusions. Then the argument wouldn't be about the voluntary action, but the policies.
  
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Don_G
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Re: are co op biznesses antilibertarain
Reply #3 - Nov 7th, 2017 at 1:11pm
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ahhell wrote on Nov 7th, 2017 at 9:23am:
People should be allowed to associate how ever they please, including forming co-ops.   

Anarcho-syndicalists would more or less force all workers in to co-ops, that would be anti-libertarian.


It's mild socialist reform working within a capitalist system. It seems that it would have nothing that would be contrary to libertarian principle. But that's a little risky to just assume without close consideration.

In fact in practice, which has been ongoing for many years in Canada, and successfully, it's never forced anybody into becoming anarchists and syndicalists.

Again, pseudo-libertarians push the bounds of reality.
  
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ahhell
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Re: are co op biznesses antilibertarain
Reply #4 - Nov 7th, 2017 at 1:43pm
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Don_G wrote on Nov 7th, 2017 at 1:11pm:
It's mild socialist reform working within a capitalist system. It seems that it would have nothing that would be contrary to libertarian principle. But that's a little risky to just assume without close consideration.

In fact in practice, which has been ongoing for many years in Canada, and successfully, it's never forced anybody into becoming anarchists and syndicalists.

Again, pseudo-libertarians push the bounds of reality.

As usual, I fail to see how your post follows from the post you quoted. 

  
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Don_G
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Re: are co op biznesses antilibertarain
Reply #5 - Nov 7th, 2017 at 1:48pm
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ahhell wrote on Nov 7th, 2017 at 1:43pm:
As usual, I fail to see how your post follows from the post you quoted. 



Really? You said: Quote:
Anarcho-syndicalists would more or less force all workers in to co-ops, that would be anti-libertarian.


So how about the part where I said that doesn't happen and never did happen?

I thought you were better than that ahhell. Go listen to some nice classical music and then come back with a better attitude.
  
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ahhell
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Re: are co op biznesses antilibertarain
Reply #6 - Nov 7th, 2017 at 2:05pm
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I did not say it would happen, as I said, co-ops aren't anti-libertarian but if you forced folks into co-ops, that would be anti-libertarian.  That is effectively what anarcho-syndicalists favor.  they still exist and historically they have held power in at least one country until the Commies  turned on them and gave up Spain to Franco.   

Think of it as a thought experiment, how do you make co-ops unlibertarian?  Make them mandatory.  Who would do that?  Anarcho-syndicalists. 


Also, do you think Canada is unique in having co-ops?
  
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Don_G
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Re: are co op biznesses antilibertarain
Reply #7 - Nov 7th, 2017 at 2:27pm
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ahhell wrote on Nov 7th, 2017 at 2:05pm:
I did not say it would happen, as I said, co-ops aren't anti-libertarian but if you forced folks into co-ops, that would be anti-libertarian.  That is effectively what anarcho-syndicalists favor.  they still exist and historically they have held power in at least one country until the Commies  turned on them and gave up Spain to Franco.   

Think of it as a thought experiment, how do you make co-ops unlibertarian?  Make them mandatory.  Who would do that?  Anarcho-syndicalists.


?? whatever? 


Quote:
Also, do you think Canada is unique in having co-ops?


I didn't think so. But I think you will admit that it's promoting socialist principles. As are mennonite or other closed religious communities. That makes them the demonstration of libertarian principles in sync with socialism.

Can any of that be applied to a larger group, say on the size of a small town? I think it hasn't been done successfully, therefore we can assume that it wouldn't be possible.
  
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ahhell
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Re: are co op biznesses antilibertarain
Reply #8 - Nov 7th, 2017 at 2:38pm
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Don_G wrote on Nov 7th, 2017 at 2:27pm:
Can any of that be applied to a larger group, say on the size of a small town? I think it hasn't been done successfully, therefore we can assume that it wouldn't be possible.
Just because something hasn't happened doesn't mean it can't.  That being said, there have been attempts to have similar sort of communes on larger scales.  Most have eventually failed.  They seem to be good for a generation or two at most.   

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amana_Colonies

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneida_Community

They have a tendency to motivate by religion. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_Utopian_communities
  
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Don_G
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Re: are co op biznesses antilibertarain
Reply #9 - Nov 7th, 2017 at 3:06pm
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ahhell wrote on Nov 7th, 2017 at 2:38pm:
Just because something hasn't happened doesn't mean it can't.  That being said, there have been attempts to have similar sort of communes on larger scales.  Most have eventually failed.  They seem to be good for a generation or two at most.   

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amana_Colonies

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneida_Community

They have a tendency to motivate by religion. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_Utopian_communities



I knew the answer. No, it's not possible or even sustainable even at those numbers. What the fu-k is the point in going around in circles on an imagined libertarians utopia? Why not loosen up a bit and start to think of that which can be possible.

You start by leading in the direction in which you think something could work.
  
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