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Don_G
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Re: Youtubers Practicing Civil Obedience
Reply #10 - Nov 8th, 2017 at 12:39pm
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burnsred wrote on Nov 8th, 2017 at 12:24pm:
I'll partly agree with you, Don.  I do believe that Canadian officers understand their role when dealing with citizens better than U.S. officers do.  But I don't know that salaries are what determine that.  Sounds like Mounties make good money but our federal officers make just as much and some local PD's pay more.


Sure, and undoubtedly some of our police make more too, but that's getting into a more detailed comparison.

Quote:
  Some make much more and they still violate citizen's rights and they still spend their time writing tickets for three miles over the limit instead of catching murderers. 


I have a bit of sympathy for what you're saying there. 3 mph over is getting excessive, except in a school zone perhaps. Our comparison is about 5K over and that usually doesn't do it in Canada. If you do 40K in a 30K school zone then they'll get you. And they should in my opinion. In any case, policing speed limits doesn't interfere with 'our' police's ability to catch murderers. I don't know if it does with yours but I suspect it doesn't. I can't imagine how it would. Just stop speeding and you'll have found the answer to your complaining.


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My theory is that Canadians are natural rule followers while Americans are rebels.  The histories of our countries explains that.  To a Canadian police officer, the rule that a suspect has the right to remain silent is at least as important as the rule the suspect is suspected of breaking.  Our officers should be trained to think the same way instead  of being peer pressured to think their authority extends to law-abiding people doing nothing wrong.


You've hit on some ideas for why your policing isn't as good. But I think that you should acknowledge too that if you start with poor quality people, those are the people who will rise to the top in a corrupt system. They become the Commmissioner of Police, or whatever you call the bosses.

Americans put too much emphasis on saving money on taxes where saving money isn't the top priority. I suppose that could be because your system of taxation is corrupted too. I mean, we get better for our tax dollar and overall, we pay about the same in taxes. All taxes.


  
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ahhell
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Re: Youtubers Practicing Civil Obedience
Reply #11 - Nov 8th, 2017 at 12:44pm
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Don_G wrote on Nov 8th, 2017 at 12:15pm:
I think you might be missing some of the critical points burnsred and Jeff are bringing up. In the US they are saying that there's a heavy emphasis to hire private security guards and they are the ones that are working for $10 an hour. The Zimmerman case was an example of those chickens coming home.
Not even sure what "heavy emphasis" to hire private security means.  Unarmed guards are common and would be the sort that makes around $10/hour.  Comparing them to mounties is absurd.

Apples to Apples comparison:
https://www.indeed.com/salaries/Security-Guard-Salaries 
$11
https://ca.indeed.com/salaries/Security-Guard-Salaries
13.5 Canadian.  Huge difference. 

That is unless most mounties just hang out at malls looking for shop lifters and call in real cops when any crime is actually commited.
Quote:
Anyway, you seem to have quoted $25/hour for regular police and that's less than $40/hour our mounties get after 36 months.

Check out the facts if you have an interest?

But the point is, you can't interfere with the free market through right to work laws and still expect it to work well.
Americans just put too much emphasis on saving money on taxes in instances where they shouldn't be interfering.

Zimmeraman was just an asshole fighting with a neighbor, that is just a read herring. 

A link to what non mounty cops in canada get paid.
https://www.livingin-canada.com/salaries-for-police-officers-canada.html
Roughly on par with US cops.

  
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Don_G
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Re: Youtubers Practicing Civil Obedience
Reply #12 - Nov 8th, 2017 at 1:01pm
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ahhell wrote on Nov 8th, 2017 at 12:44pm:
Not even sure what "heavy emphasis" to hire private security means.  Unarmed guards are common and would be the sort that makes around $10/hour.  Comparing them to mounties is absurd.

Apples to Apples comparison:
https://www.indeed.com/salaries/Security-Guard-Salaries 
$11
https://ca.indeed.com/salaries/Security-Guard-Salaries
13.5 Canadian.  Huge difference. 

That is unless most mounties just hang out at malls looking for shop lifters and call in real cops when any crime is actually commited.
Zimmeraman was just an asshole fighting with a neighbor, that is just a read herring. 

A link to what non mounty cops in canada get paid.
https://www.livingin-canada.com/salaries-for-police-officers-canada.html
Roughly on par with US cops.



Good link, and it agrees somewhat with what I said. Here's mine: http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/salary-and-benefits

I think an indepth analysis would show that there's more reliance on private policing in the US and that would be part of the problem. You have too many Zimmerman types running around with guns and looking for somebody to use them on.

Our mounties are the bulk of policing in Canada but some of the big cities have their own still and they are a lower quality of police force. Somebody who has failed to make it into the mounties will make it into a municipal force.

Overall, I'm still saying that Canada pays our police better and we get better quality policing as well as better quality people.

You pseudo-libertarians seem to want to change your strips so quickly when it comes to your vanity and patriotism. Otherwise, when I'm not a part of the conversation, you are always on complaining and telling each other how corrupt everything is in your country.

I'll be the participant or the observer from time to time, as I see fit. You people have fallen victim to a forum with a purpose. We know why you put down the two parties that are supported by 99% of the patsies.
  
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burnsred
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Re: Youtubers Practicing Civil Obedience
Reply #13 - Nov 8th, 2017 at 1:12pm
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Problem is Don that police are public servants and Americans don't make good servants the way Canadians do.  Canadian police are rule followers as police should be.  Americans are not and paying them more would only inflate their already outsized sense of self-importance.

If you believe that government in Canada is highly effective at bargain prices, fine.  I'm not dumb enough to claim expertise about someone else's country.  In America, we don't hardly get our money's worth from even our 30K per year police officers.  Not really their fault, it's the training and the nature of government itself. 

Canada seems to be doing better but until you can prove otherwise, I attribute that to your restrictive immigration policies.

  
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Re: Youtubers Practicing Civil Obedience
Reply #14 - Nov 8th, 2017 at 1:26pm
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burnsred wrote on Nov 8th, 2017 at 1:12pm:
Problem is Don that police are public servants and Americans don't make good servants the way Canadians do.  Canadian police are rule followers as police should be.  Americans are not and paying them more would only inflate their already outsized sense of self-importance.

If you believe that government in Canada is highly effective at bargain prices, fine.  I'm not dumb enough to claim expertise about someone else's country.  In America, we don't hardly get our money's worth from even our 30K per year police officers.  Not really their fault, it's the training and the nature of government itself. 

Canada seems to be doing better but until you can prove otherwise, I attribute that to your restrictive immigration policies.

 


I learn from your complaining burnsred, and then I look it up on the internet to see how much of it is true. The truth you're going to have to face is that I know more about you Americans than 3/4's of Americans do.

Fact is, we rise above the average rabble in both countries. Don't sell yourself short. Extremist pollitical ideology is your problem, not a lack of an IQ that makes you worth listening to sometimes. I hear your complaints and I take them seriously. I don't take you as seriously when you try to explain your way out of blowing your system's cover.
  
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Re: Youtubers Practicing Civil Obedience
Reply #15 - Nov 8th, 2017 at 1:28pm
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Ok, so no proof that your country's restrictive immigration policies aren't the major factor in your low crime rate?
  
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Don_G
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Re: Youtubers Practicing Civil Obedience
Reply #16 - Nov 8th, 2017 at 1:42pm
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burnsred wrote on Nov 8th, 2017 at 1:28pm:
Ok, so no proof that your country's restrictive immigration policies aren't the major factor in your low crime rate?


No, no proof. It's a non-starter in both our countries, restrictive or otherwise. I't your misconceptions that have been promoted in your head by your support of Trump.
  
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Re: Youtubers Practicing Civil Obedience
Reply #17 - Nov 9th, 2017 at 7:38am
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Quote:
Ok, so no proof that your country's restrictive immigration policies aren't the major factor in your low crime rate?


No, no proof. It's a non-starter in both our countries, restrictive or otherwise. I't your misconceptions that have been promoted in your head by your support of Trump.
I'll take that as a concession, then.
  
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