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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Are homeless people libertarians? (Read 411 times)
JW
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Are homeless people libertarians?
Nov 7th, 2017 at 11:49am
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I work downtown in a city with about 3000 "street people".  I come to work early, so I get to ponder their life choices as I pass some of them coming to work.  In my city, all homeless people have access to shelter and services, but the access comes with rules.  Among those rules are being sober, and clean and not fighting.   So the people who are sleeping on the streets are doing so primarily because they like the freedom, and also choose to engage in their addictions (usually alcohol and/or drugs) in preference to available shelter and services.

So doesn't that make them the ultimate libertarian?  Making a life choice to avoid money, rent, jobs and all the strings of society, and just live drugged out day after day, shuffling from one free meal to the next? 

If you don't want to pay taxes, then own no property and make no money.  It's all optional.
  
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ahhell
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Re: Are homeless people libertarians?
Reply #1 - Nov 7th, 2017 at 12:08pm
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Only of the strawman variety.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Are homeless people libertarians?
Reply #2 - Nov 7th, 2017 at 12:15pm
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ahhell wrote on Nov 7th, 2017 at 12:08pm:
Only of the strawman variety.


It could be but he's hitting on a very logical example of how to be a real living libertarian. Mine too is just as much a strawman argument but both are the most logical means of arriving at the desired end point.

There are no others being proposed that can actually become possible solutions for arriving at the same endpoint.

A better answer to the spamming of the libertarian agenda.

Modify the endpoint so it can reflect some reality. If you don't then you leave the proposed agenda open to ridicule.

  
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burnsred
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Re: Are homeless people libertarians?
Reply #3 - Nov 7th, 2017 at 2:40pm
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Yes, living as a homeless street person is libertarian if that is what one wants to do.  So is living in the wilderness as a hermit or living on a desert island and proclaiming it to be a libertarian micronation.  Those are all ways an individual can be a libertarian.

The point of the libertarian movement is to bring about a libertarians system of government that actively protects freedom so that citizens don't have to escape it to be free.

  
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Don_G
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Re: Are homeless people libertarians?
Reply #4 - Nov 7th, 2017 at 2:48pm
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burnsred wrote on Nov 7th, 2017 at 2:40pm:
Yes, living as a homeless street person is libertarian if that is what one wants to do.  So is living in the wilderness as a hermit or living on a desert island and proclaiming it to be a libertarian micronation.  Those are all ways an individual can be a libertarian.

The point of the libertarian movement is to bring about a libertarians system of government that actively protects freedom so that citizens don't have to escape it to be free.



Flawless simple logic burnsred. Taking it to reality is the next step, as we all know. And I  think we all know that is impossible.

Or if it isn't then maybe it's time to provide an explanation of how a libertarian would find it possible.

Maybe you've read Skyfairy's idea of going cold turkey?
  
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burnsred
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Re: Are homeless people libertarians?
Reply #5 - Nov 7th, 2017 at 3:08pm
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Of course it is possible.  FDR probably never envisioned how far the New Deal would take us into the authoritarian socialist government we now have running our lives.  He stood on the shoulders of giants, of course.  Men like George "The Revenuer" Washington and Abraham "Arsonist Abe" Lincoln led the way.  What FDR had that those men lacked was a deep understanding of Marxist thought and an American left fully funded by the Soviet Union.

What we need is a ground roots effort for a return to freedom.  What we can never have is the kind of mentoring by a large nation that 1930's ultra-statists got from the Soviet Union.  If there is to be libertarianism on the earth, the U.S. must lead the way.



  
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Don_G
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Re: Are homeless people libertarians?
Reply #6 - Nov 7th, 2017 at 4:14pm
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burnsred wrote on Nov 7th, 2017 at 3:08pm:
Of course it is possible.  FDR probably never envisioned how far the New Deal would take us into the authoritarian socialist government we now have running our lives.  He stood on the shoulders of giants, of course.  Men like George "The Revenuer" Washington and Abraham "Arsonist Abe" Lincoln led the way.  What FDR had that those men lacked was a deep understanding of Marxist thought and an American left fully funded by the Soviet Union.

What we need is a ground roots effort for a return to freedom.  What we can never have is the kind of mentoring by a large nation that 1930's ultra-statists got from the Soviet Union.  If there is to be libertarianism on the earth, the U.S. must lead the way.





All fine except that there isn't going to be libertarianism on the face of the earth, in any way that could be big enough to be meaningful.

Fwiw on this forum, there's a kind of government that can be loosely defined as libertarian in some of it's principles that is possible on this earth. And has in fact been working very well in the countries where the people are the most happy.

But you would rather stick with what you define as your communism/socialism system of government.

Your man Trump is destroying your country and you're stuck with imagining 'pie in the sky' nonsense!
  
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Jeff
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Re: Are homeless people libertarians?
Reply #7 - Nov 7th, 2017 at 5:27pm
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ahhell wrote on Nov 7th, 2017 at 12:08pm:
Only of the strawman variety.
Really, if you depend on other people to provide you with food and shelter and medical care and give you the opportunity to give blowjobs for the drugs you want, or steal to buy them, why shouldn't you be the ideal libertarian we should hold up as an example?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Are homeless people libertarians?
Reply #8 - Nov 7th, 2017 at 5:28pm
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burnsred wrote on Nov 7th, 2017 at 2:40pm:
Yes, living as a homeless street person is libertarian if that is what one wants to do.  So is living in the wilderness as a hermit or living on a desert island and proclaiming it to be a libertarian micronation.  Those are all ways an individual can be a libertarian.

The point of the libertarian movement is to bring about a libertarians system of government that actively protects freedom so that citizens don't have to escape it to be free.

Good post red.
  
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thermf5
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Re: Are homeless people libertarians?
Reply #9 - Nov 7th, 2017 at 6:09pm
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burnsred wrote on Nov 7th, 2017 at 2:40pm:
Yes, living as a homeless street person is libertarian if that is what one wants to do.  So is living in the wilderness as a hermit or living on a desert island and proclaiming it to be a libertarian micronation.  Those are all ways an individual can be a libertarian.

The point of the libertarian movement is to bring about a libertarians system of government that actively protects freedom so that citizens don't have to escape it to be free.


well maby i dont have hope in the system so we need to get out of it to live how we want
  
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