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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Libertarianism and Mental Illness (Read 238 times)
burnsred
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Libertarianism and Mental Illness
Nov 8th, 2017 at 12:45pm
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No, not redundant terms . . .

While statists will surely claim that the church shooting was caused by the evil gun, anyone with common sense can recognize that mental illness was the cause of that tragedy.  What do do about it?  Well, it is obvious that we can't count on government to keep guns out the hands of people who are proven to be violently mentally ill.  It turns out that the Air Force's failure to put the gunman on the federal database after he was conviced of felonious assault on his own wife wasn't an isolated error.  According to NPR, that's the military's unofficial policy.  During the calendar year the shooter was discharged, the military added exactly one person on that list so many others are out there.

Under a libertarian system, we cannot lock people up we think are mentally ill but haven't committed a crime yet.  But that's true under the existing system so it isn't a flaw in libertarianism.  What we should do so lock up violent offenders until they can be rehabilitated.  After rehabilitation, they can live in apartment buildings or neighborhoods populated exclusively by those who have been rehabilitated and those who approved their release.

The free market provides the answer again!



  
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Don_G
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Re: Libertarianism and Mental Illness
Reply #1 - Nov 8th, 2017 at 1:52pm
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burnsred wrote on Nov 8th, 2017 at 12:45pm:
No, not redundant terms . . .

While statists will surely claim that the church shooting was caused by the evil gun, anyone with common sense can recognize that mental illness was the cause of that tragedy.  What do do about it?  Well, it is obvious that we can't count on government to keep guns out the hands of people who are proven to be violently mentally ill.  It turns out that the Air Force's failure to put the gunman on the federal database after he was conviced of felonious assault on his own wife wasn't an isolated error.  According to NPR, that's the military's unofficial policy.  During the calendar year the shooter was discharged, the military added exactly one person on that list so many others are out there.

Under a libertarian system, we cannot lock people up we think are mentally ill but haven't committed a crime yet.  But that's true under the existing system so it isn't a flaw in libertarianism.  What we should do so lock up violent offenders until they can be rehabilitated.  After rehabilitation, they can live in apartment buildings or neighborhoods populated exclusively by those who have been rehabilitated and those who approved their release.

The free market provides the answer again!





Mental illness was likely the major cause. Are you trying to suggest that your country has a virtual monopoly on mental illness? Based on the gun death statistics, that would be saying that your country has roughly ten times more mental illness than countries with the lowest incidence of shootings.

And then you go on to make some ridiculous statements on rehabilitation and how rehabbed people should lose their freedom.

This is a conversation I would very much like to keep alive. You've correctly introduced mental illness into the conversation and I'm going to use it as a valid reason for you gun violence rate as compared to other countries.

And first off, I'm going to proclaim that your country doesn't have a significantly higher rate of mental illness that could account for the shootings! Argue that!

And so we need to look for a better answer!
  
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Don_G
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Re: Libertarianism and Mental Illness
Reply #2 - Nov 8th, 2017 at 1:56pm
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Is government responsible for the outrageiously high incidenc of shootings?

Yes, but indirectly. We should explore government's inability to take control over the problem. (not yet saying what the problem is)

And we could also ask why government is afraid to do anything about the problem?

What problem? How is government failing?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Libertarianism and Mental Illness
Reply #3 - Nov 8th, 2017 at 4:32pm
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Don_G wrote on Nov 8th, 2017 at 1:56pm:
Is government responsible for the outrageiously high incidenc of shootings?

Yes, but indirectly. We should explore government's inability to take control over the problem. (not yet saying what the problem is)

Most of our shootings are in our big regressively controlled cities. A high proportion of them are drug related. Both root causes are the result of bad government policy and unconstitutional laws enabling them.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Libertarianism and Mental Illness
Reply #4 - Nov 8th, 2017 at 4:35pm
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burnsred wrote on Nov 8th, 2017 at 12:45pm:
No, not redundant terms . . .

While statists will surely claim that the church shooting was caused by the evil gun, anyone with common sense can recognize that mental illness was the cause of that tragedy.  What do do about it?  Well, it is obvious that we can't count on government to keep guns out the hands of people who are proven to be violently mentally ill.  It turns out that the Air Force's failure to put the gunman on the federal database after he was conviced of felonious assault on his own wife wasn't an isolated error.  According to NPR, that's the military's unofficial policy.  During the calendar year the shooter was discharged, the military added exactly one person on that list so many others are out there.

Under a libertarian system, we cannot lock people up we think are mentally ill but haven't committed a crime yet.  But that's true under the existing system so it isn't a flaw in libertarianism.  What we should do so lock up violent offenders until they can be rehabilitated.  After rehabilitation, they can live in apartment buildings or neighborhoods populated exclusively by those who have been rehabilitated and those who approved their release.

The free market provides the answer again!




Good plan! The people who say they are rehabilitated could take them into their homes for a year... Sort of like foster children... We could even pay them to do it.

Do you suppose this unofficial policy was promulgated under Obama, or does it go back even further?
  
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Don_G
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Re: Libertarianism and Mental Illness
Reply #5 - Nov 8th, 2017 at 6:56pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 8th, 2017 at 4:32pm:
Most of our shootings are in our big regressively controlled cities. A high proportion of them are drug related. Both root causes are the result of bad government policy and unconstitutional laws enabling them.


And so monkey boy, Your government is responsible for all the shootings! Canada doesn't have near as many so now we can  establish that Canada's government is much better in that way at least.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Libertarianism and Mental Illness
Reply #6 - Nov 8th, 2017 at 7:00pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 8th, 2017 at 4:35pm:
Good plan! The people who say they are rehabilitated could take them into their homes for a year... Sort of like foster children... We could even pay them to do it.

Do you suppose this unofficial policy was promulgated under Obama, or does it go back even further?


You obviously don't understand what rehabilitated means monkey boy. It means they are less likely to commit the same crime even less than you are likely to commit it for the first time.

The problem with you nazis is that you're totallly void of any understanding of social refrom being possible, and the great need for it.
  
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burnsred
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Re: Libertarianism and Mental Illness
Reply #7 - Nov 8th, 2017 at 7:00pm
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Quote:
I'm going to use it as a valid reason for you gun violence rate as compared to other countries.

And first off, I'm going to proclaim that your country doesn't have a significantly higher rate of mental illness that could account for the shootings!
Aren't those statements contradictory?

  
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burnsred
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Re: Libertarianism and Mental Illness
Reply #8 - Nov 8th, 2017 at 7:02pm
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You obviously don't understand what rehabilitated means monkey boy. It means they are less likely to commit the same crime even less than you are likely to commit it for the first time.
So it does NOT mean only that they have been through a rehabilitation program?  It means that they are actually rehabilitated?


  
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Don_G
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Re: Libertarianism and Mental Illness
Reply #9 - Nov 8th, 2017 at 7:09pm
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burnsred wrote on Nov 8th, 2017 at 7:00pm:
Aren't those statements contradictory?



Yes, and that's the point. To claim mental illness is the reason for the problem just won't fly, unless you accept that your mental illness problem far exceeds any other first world country with gun violence rates far less than yours.

You can choose what countries you want to compare yourselves with. I'm comparing my country to all those socially responsible countries that have the happiest people in the world.

Is unhappiness a factor? I would say it fits in there too.

So far we have:
unhappiness
mental illness far above the norm
born and raised to be more violent

All culminating in too easy access to guns that are designed for killing people.
  
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