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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) How do the Libertarians here Feel about Conscription? (Read 327 times)
burnsred
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How do the Libertarians here Feel about Conscription?
Nov 9th, 2017 at 7:53am
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One month ago, I would have never thought to ask that question for fear of being flamed into oblivion for asking such an obvious queston.  Now I wonder.

Is it safe to assume that each and every poster who calls themselves a libertarian is unalterably opposed to a draft no matter what the circumstances?  That there is no situation in which conscripting people into military service is acceptable, be it historical or hypothetical?

  
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ahhell
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Re: How do the Libertarians here Feel about Conscription?
Reply #1 - Nov 9th, 2017 at 9:39am
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I think military service good could be a requirement for full citizenship so long as the  residents can choose not to be full citizens.  The lower class citizens would get all the rights but not all of the privileges and duties of full citizens.  Something like the system of starship troopers would be acceptable to me.

Other than that, its slavery. 
« Last Edit: Nov 9th, 2017 at 10:57am by ahhell »  
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Jeff
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Re: How do the Libertarians here Feel about Conscription?
Reply #2 - Nov 9th, 2017 at 10:55am
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red, Do you in fact know nothing at all about libertarians in general?
  
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ahhell
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Re: How do the Libertarians here Feel about Conscription?
Reply #3 - Nov 9th, 2017 at 10:58am
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Jeff wrote on Nov 9th, 2017 at 10:55am:
red, Do you in fact know nothing at all about libertarians in general?
I suspect he's trying to weed out peudolibertarians.
  
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burnsred
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Re: How do the Libertarians here Feel about Conscription?
Reply #4 - Nov 9th, 2017 at 10:59am
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Quote:
red, Do you in fact know nothing at all about libertarians in general?


I knew it!

I can tell by that answer that you do believe in conscription.  So it is not I who fails to understand libertarianism.

Or maybe you do understand libertarianism, which is why you won't give a straight answer to that simple question about enslaving people into military service.

  
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Don_G
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Re: How do the Libertarians here Feel about Conscription?
Reply #5 - Nov 9th, 2017 at 1:26pm
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burnsred wrote on Nov 9th, 2017 at 10:59am:
I knew it!

I can tell by that answer that you do believe in conscription.  So it is not I who fails to understand libertarianism.

Or maybe you do understand libertarianism, which is why you won't give a straight answer to that simple question about enslaving people into military service.



It's seems to be very elementary doesn't it. Of course a libertarian can't be supportive of conscription.

Are you clearly interpreting their answers as 'yes' they do favour it?

If so then you are indeed starting from a point less than zero from which to debate. I feel the same way but on some different issues.

They're all batshit crazy in their own ways, except maybe ahhell. Then on the other hand, maybe I haven't figured out his crazy yet?

You? I think  you're just extremist right. As you probably see me as extremist left. At least we start at zero!
  
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burnsred
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Re: How do the Libertarians here Feel about Conscription?
Reply #6 - Nov 9th, 2017 at 1:45pm
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Quote:
Are you clearly interpreting their answers as 'yes' they do favour it?
Not ahhell's.  His answer isn't a call for slavery but for a requirement to earn the franchise.  With a lot of qualification, I'd be on board for that also, but that's another thread.
  
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Don_G
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Re: How do the Libertarians here Feel about Conscription?
Reply #7 - Nov 9th, 2017 at 1:55pm
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burnsred wrote on Nov 9th, 2017 at 1:45pm:
Not ahhell's.  His answer isn't a call for slavery but for a requirement to earn the franchise.  With a lot of qualification, I'd be on board for that also, but that's another thread.


He seems to be thinking of some people not being full citizens and that's a non-starter for me. Therefore I interpret it as a 'yes'.  Don't you?

I wouldn't worry about mixing up topics. Every thread is thoroughly fu-ked up already.

I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that there's no libertarian principle that can be held up as sacred. It's all bullshit unless one starts with libertarianism as a realistic premise to begin with.

Are you finding that out yet or is it too early for you to write it off?

Personally, I'm having trouble getting to point zero before I can introduce something that 'will' work. Disagreements on what it will be, aside.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: How do the Libertarians here Feel about Conscription?
Reply #8 - Nov 9th, 2017 at 2:11pm
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Don_G wrote on Nov 9th, 2017 at 1:55pm:
I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that there's no libertarian principle that can be held up as sacred. It's all bullshit unless one starts with libertarianism as a realistic premise to begin with.

Here's one for you:   SELF OWNERSHIP.  This is the cornerstone for all libertarian principles. 

It means each individual has sovereignty over him/herself.  It means that each individual has natural rights that cannot be granted or revoked by Government.

If a government forces someone to serve in the military, it is a form of servitude, and anti-libertarian.
  
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Jeff
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Re: How do the Libertarians here Feel about Conscription?
Reply #9 - Nov 9th, 2017 at 2:19pm
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burnsred wrote on Nov 9th, 2017 at 10:59am:
I knew it!

I can tell by that answer that you do believe in conscription.
Your powers of deduction are amazing! Amazingly flawed. Almost all libertarians/classical liberals think conscription is absolutely wrong, including me.

I do not however believe in one issue litmus tests for libertarians. If you otherwise agree with libertarian principles and policies but believe that in certain existential situations conscription might be necessary to preserve liberty, I will not call you a pseudo-libertarian.
  
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