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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Tax Advocates: Would You Personally Aim a Gun at Your Neighbor . . . (Read 370 times)
Don_G
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Re: Tax Advocates: Would You Personally Aim a Gun at Your Neighbor . . .
Reply #30 - Nov 10th, 2017 at 3:29pm
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burnsred wrote on Nov 10th, 2017 at 3:06pm:
My only condition is that the people who determine that a violent offender is rehabbed enough to be released agree to have that rehabbed person live right next to them.  Do you have another standard in mind by which we could judge that a person is truly rehabbed?  I'm all ears.
Meaning that once we started releasing all those rehabbed prisoners, the savings would be passed on in the form of lower taxes?  Not quite accurate on several levels:

1)  Unless the prisoner is truly reformed, any savings from not incarcerating them would be eaten up by more police work to re-arrest, re-try and re-imprison after he re-offends.  Not to mention the costs of hospital and funeral expenses for his victims following release after a failed rehab.

2)  Even for those prisoners who are successful after release, the government is highly unlikely to pass on the savings to the tax payers.  Based on past behavior, their most likely move would be to find other ways to spend all that "extra" money.

Ok, just two levels really.  Not "several."


The problem is that you have never met a libertarian idea that you thought could be possible and part of reform.  Unless it's an idea that already fits in with the American left's ideas, like ending the death penalty and criticizing American adventurism abroad (when there's a Republican in the WH).




You're obviously not interested in rehab for prisoners. I didn't think you would be but you misled for a while.

I think the libertarian idea of smaller government is a good idea but I've never heard them express and idea of how to achieve that. Prison system reform is obviously out of the question with you.

That's o.k, there are lots of other ways.
  
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ahhell
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Re: Tax Advocates: Would You Personally Aim a Gun at Your Neighbor . . .
Reply #31 - Nov 10th, 2017 at 3:38pm
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Don_G wrote on Nov 10th, 2017 at 3:29pm:
I think the libertarian idea of smaller government is a good idea but I've never heard them express and idea of how to achieve that. Prison system reform is obviously out of the question with you.
There's a bit of a joke on this subject.  The only parts of the government conservatives trusts are the only parts liberals don't trust.  Law enforcement and the military.  Its not funny but it's largely true.

libertarian suggestions to reduce the size of the government that are practical and should have wide spread appeal:

Reduce foreign military intervention.
End the war on drugs


There are a bunch more controversial ideas too.  Leave folks retirements to themselves, simplify the tax code, decriminalize all victimless crimes, generally reduce regulations, devolve law enforcement back to the state(I'd give the FBI to principle duties; counter espionage and investigating crimes by other cops......etc.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Tax Advocates: Would You Personally Aim a Gun at Your Neighbor . . .
Reply #32 - Nov 10th, 2017 at 3:54pm
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ahhell wrote on Nov 10th, 2017 at 3:38pm:
There's a bit of a joke on this subject.  The only parts of the government conservatives trusts are the only parts liberals don't trust.  Law enforcement and the military.  Its not funny but it's largely true.

libertarian suggestions to reduce the size of the government that are practical and should have wide spread appeal:

Reduce foreign military intervention.
End the war on drugs


There are a bunch more controversial ideas too.  Leave folks retirements to themselves, simplify the tax code, decriminalize all victimless crimes, generally reduce regulations, devolve law enforcement back to the state(I'd give the FBI to principle duties; counter espionage and investigating crimes by other cops......etc. 


lIbertarianism is a big lie the way it's being pushed and it will continue to be. None of you have any idea at all on how to bring about change.

I wonder, did Gary Johnson have any ideas that could have been adopted or did he just complain?
In any case, none of his ideas came anywhere near being acceptable.

When something good happens in your country it's going to be a move toward socially responsible capitalism and it's going to be a move to a real left.

In truth, the details are in everything you people are asking for. It's just that you can't yet imagine the route you have to take to get there.

I've hinted at it with the prison system and several other topics. Bernie was a hint and he would have become your president if the Dems didn't hijack him with the wicked witch.

And you would now be well on your way to government reform.
  
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burnsred
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Re: Tax Advocates: Would You Personally Aim a Gun at Your Neighbor . . .
Reply #33 - Nov 10th, 2017 at 4:21pm
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You're obviously not interested in rehab for prisoners. I didn't think you would be but you misled for a while.
You think because I ask you how rehabilitation can be done, that means I'm not interested in it?  Or is it the verifiable requirement that kills it?  Verifiability is indeed the enemy of American left, I don't know how it is for Canada's left.

Quote:
I think the libertarian idea of smaller government is a good idea but I've never heard them express and idea of how to achieve that. Prison system reform is obviously out of the question with you.

That's o.k, there are lots of other ways.
The kind of pseudo-libertarian "I think government might be too big in certain areas" isn't going to get us down the road, because that thought always has a brother - "but I want to keep my program, though"

If you're asking how I plan to bring about libertarianism in the next election cycle, I don't.  It will be a long and hard struggle and it may not happen until my grandchildren vote.  But it's worth it for my great-grandchildren to grow up with freedom.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Tax Advocates: Would You Personally Aim a Gun at Your Neighbor . . .
Reply #34 - Nov 10th, 2017 at 4:44pm
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Don_G wrote on Nov 10th, 2017 at 3:29pm:
I think the libertarian idea of smaller government is a good idea but I've never heard them express and idea of how to achieve that.
The best way to do it is by law. It's the libertarian way. We prefer it to fighting it out with stones.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Tax Advocates: Would You Personally Aim a Gun at Your Neighbor . . .
Reply #35 - Nov 10th, 2017 at 6:15pm
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burnsred wrote on Nov 10th, 2017 at 4:21pm:
You think because I ask you how rehabilitation can be done, that means I'm not interested in it?  Or is it the verifiable requirement that kills it?  Verifiability is indeed the enemy of American left, I don't know how it is for Canada's left.

The kind of pseudo-libertarian "I think government might be too big in certain areas" isn't going to get us down the road, because that thought always has a brother - "but I want to keep my program, though"

If you're asking how I plan to bring about libertarianism in the next election cycle, I don't.  It will be a long and hard struggle and it may not happen until my grandchildren vote.  But it's worth it for my great-grandchildren to grow up with freedom.


Oh, so you are interested in rehabilitation again!

I see no positive direction offered by libertarianism as offered by the party or you people. But I'm interested in talking about the idea and making some adjustments to the party platform that could make it attractive in the future to enough people.

I see it as a golden opportunity because the party is already organized, even though it hasn't been able to attract a leader that would be acceptable. That's because of the weird agenda.

Can you switch your modus operandi to something more positive that we can discuss? I've given you quite a bit even though none of it is acceptable to you so far. Except possibly the idea of rehabilitation in your prisons. What have you got for the future of your grandchildren?
  
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Don_G
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Re: Tax Advocates: Would You Personally Aim a Gun at Your Neighbor . . .
Reply #36 - Nov 10th, 2017 at 6:17pm
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Burnsred, there are just too many fu-king nutcases like the chief who think that complaining is going to change things. He's a no-mind defeatist who is more intent on criticizing anything that break the bounds of his foolish dogma. We need some real libertarians who actually take the shit seriously. For some reason I have confidence in getting through to you.

And fwiw, by now you know that Jeff is no better. What are we left with to work with other than ahhell, who's on and off and not very interested?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Tax Advocates: Would You Personally Aim a Gun at Your Neighbor . . .
Reply #37 - Nov 10th, 2017 at 7:10pm
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Don_G wrote on Nov 10th, 2017 at 6:17pm:
What are we left with to work with...?
Who is this "we" you speak of paleface?
  
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burnsred
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Re: Tax Advocates: Would You Personally Aim a Gun at Your Neighbor . . .
Reply #38 - Nov 12th, 2017 at 10:39am
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rehabilitation in your prisons.
I'm all for rehabilitation in my prisons.  Please tell me how it is done and how the rehabilitation if verified before the prisoner is released.

  
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Don_G
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Re: Tax Advocates: Would You Personally Aim a Gun at Your Neighbor . . .
Reply #39 - Nov 12th, 2017 at 11:24am
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burnsred wrote on Nov 12th, 2017 at 10:39am:
I'm all for rehabilitation in my prisons.  Please tell me how it is done and how the rehabilitation if verified before the prisoner is released.



If you're not interested enough to find out about it yourself then that indicates you aren't interested. I would find it very strange if you were after some of the things you say. It's just not something rightists think is possible.

Anyway, if I've judged you wrongly then where would I start? Convincing you it does work by related success stories? Or are you past the point of needing to be convinced?

If so then a close study of the Norwegian model could be the basis for a discussion..

I think I need to hear something positive from you on the idea of rehab as opposed to punishment. All you've said so far is that for prisoners to receive good treatment they would have to earn it. That's not really the way it works; it's the opposite where the decent treatment comes first and the prison is rewarded.

It's really leftist thinking but you're welcome to join the club if you have an interest. Not the leftist club, the rehab thinking club.
  
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