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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Single Tax is the Only Non-theft Tax (Read 376 times)
SkyChief
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Re: The Single Tax is the Only Non-theft Tax
Reply #30 - Nov 14th, 2017 at 1:27pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 14th, 2017 at 12:55pm:
...If you level everything out exactly, in no time at all some hardworking ambitious person will start to get ahead again. Libertarians understand this, we just want a level legal playing field...

Yep.   Karl Marx realized the only way a government could steal a man's wealth was through an Income Tax. 

"We Communists have been reproached with the desire of abolishing the right of personally acquiring property as the fruit of a man’s own labour, which property is alleged to be the groundwork of all personal freedom, activity and independence."  - Karl Marx  [Communist Manifesto ,1848]
  
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Don_G
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Re: The Single Tax is the Only Non-theft Tax
Reply #31 - Nov 14th, 2017 at 1:41pm
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Income tax is a fact of life and always will be.

Does that mean that communism and Marx got it right?

It appears that would be so but capitalism also seemed to get it right. Which came first is a valid question.

But even though it's a valid question, that doesn't mean it's worth wasting time on discussing it. It's not going to go away but it might be adjusted periodically in order to keep inequality at a minimum.

Therein lies the issue for rational people. There's no reason why anybody should be entertaining the pseudo-libertarian notion that income will ever be eliminated. fukun weirdos!
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Single Tax is the Only Non-theft Tax
Reply #32 - Nov 14th, 2017 at 4:35pm
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Don_G wrote on Nov 14th, 2017 at 1:41pm:
It's not going to go away but it might be adjusted periodically in order to keep inequality at a minimum.
Not only are you a dolt, but you are a delirious dolt.

Why is it a bad thing that my Brother worked hard, invested his earnings and got rich while our Cousin rarely had a job, squandered his money and is now a 60 year old man with no assets? You want to periodically force my Brother to give money he earned to my Cousin, who never wanted to work and hardly ever did?
  
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Don_G
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Re: The Single Tax is the Only Non-theft Tax
Reply #33 - Nov 14th, 2017 at 6:11pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 14th, 2017 at 4:35pm:
Not only are you a dolt, but you are a delirious dolt.

Why is it a bad thing that my Brother worked hard, invested his earnings and got rich while our Cousin rarely had a job, squandered his money and is now a 60 year old man with no assets? You want to periodically force my Brother to give money he earned to my Cousin, who never wanted to work and hardly ever did?

Everybody pays taxes according to his ability to pay. (that means how much money he has) If your brother got rich off the system then he owes the system. There's no free ride for rich people.

Except with your cousin who it sounds like doesn't have the ability to pay.

And what happens when you can't pay taxes?

That's right, you get to not pay taxes!  And if you're really poor then you get money from other people. Sounds pretty fair to me! But then I'm normal and not a pseudo-libertarian asshole who thinks people don't have to pay income tax. Talk to the chief.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Single Tax is the Only Non-theft Tax
Reply #34 - Nov 14th, 2017 at 7:32pm
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Don_G wrote on Nov 14th, 2017 at 6:11pm:
Everybody pays taxes according to his ability to pay. (that means how much money he has) If your brother got rich off the system then he owes the system.
This "system" you imagine is there for anyone to use. Here's how it works- Educate yourself, get a job, work hard, get a better job, save and invest some of your wages/salary. If you do a good job of investing, you can get rich. That's just one way the "system" can be used.

If you drop out of school and never get a job, you won't be able to use the "system", but its still there waiting for anybody who wants to use it. It's not a living thing this "system" (although it is organic) so it will neither lift you up or hold you down. It's a tool that anyone can use if they are willing to work at learning, work at work, and work at anything they can think of to create wealth. Some are better at it than others, but some who aren't so good at it are highly motivated and will make it work for them anyway.
  
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Don_G
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Re: The Single Tax is the Only Non-theft Tax
Reply #35 - Nov 14th, 2017 at 7:43pm
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Taxation is not theft, it's payment of the bills you owe for goods and services provided by your government.

Work must soon be limited to only a few hours a day in order for everybody to work who actually wants to work. At least half the people won't need to work and won't be expected to work in the foreseeable future.

Libertarians aren't capable of understanding those basic facts. Fortunately they confine themselves to boards such as this where normal people don't go and so don't have to listen to their nonsense whining.

And as for my reason for being here? There's no easier chains to rattle!
  
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burnsred
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Re: The Single Tax is the Only Non-theft Tax
Reply #36 - Nov 14th, 2017 at 8:35pm
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I'm still wondering about the answer to this one, Jeff:

Can you tell me how you came to own land with no government involvement?

Jeff Wrote:
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I have never expressed faith in the "democratic process" beyond saying its a way to include the interests of the people in our federal system by having Representatives elected democratically. (Not Senators, just Representatives.)


Sad to think that it would seem libertarian to say that the actions of the federal system should "include the interests of the people."  It seems that it was originally supposed to be of the people, by the people and for the people.  Now the people only need be "included."  Not beating up on you for thinking that way; it is absolutely the conventional wisdom that the federal government and all governments are to be maintained and grown for their own sakes and if they sometimes help the people, all well and good.

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I assumed that spending will continue as is, so I asked, "How much of the three trillion to be collected will I owe on my $100,000 worth of land?"
Why would a libertarian assume that?  That is first class statist thinking that the taxpayers can obsorb any cut in spending power brought about by hiking taxes, hiking health insurance premiums or printing money but the government can't be cut by a single penny and that includes not raising spending by as much as the government wants.  Cutting spending hasn't worked.  The GOP tried for decades but they have clearly given up.  Cutting off the government's endless supply of money is the only way they will ever learn fiscal responsibility.

  
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SkyChief
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Re: The Single Tax is the Only Non-theft Tax
Reply #37 - Nov 15th, 2017 at 1:38am
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burnsred wrote on Nov 14th, 2017 at 8:35pm:
Cutting off the government's endless supply of money is the only way they will ever learn fiscal responsibility.

This is so true.  Tax cuts along with spending cuts.  It's the only way.  Otherwise government is like a bunch of 5th graders running amok in a shopping mall with stolen credit cards.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Single Tax is the Only Non-theft Tax
Reply #38 - Nov 15th, 2017 at 9:45am
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Don_G wrote on Nov 14th, 2017 at 7:43pm:
Taxation is not theft, it's payment of the bills you owe for goods and services provided by your government.

No. Bills for goods and services arise from voluntary transactions between equals under the law.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Single Tax is the Only Non-theft Tax
Reply #39 - Nov 15th, 2017 at 9:50am
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burnsred wrote on Nov 14th, 2017 at 8:35pm:
I'm still wondering about the answer to this one, Jeff:

Can you tell me how you came to own land with no government involvement?


I paid the former owner(s) the agreed upon price and they signed the deed over to me. At that point, I owned the property. Because having my ownership of the property recorded by the County is a very useful thing, I had the deed now in my name) registered.

It was not the registration of the deed that established my ownership, it was the fact that I bought the property from the previous owner(s) at an agreed on price that established my ownership.
  
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