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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Norway Prisons have only a 20% Recidivism Rate. Much better than U.S. (Read 311 times)
burnsred
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Norway Prisons have only a 20% Recidivism Rate. Much better than U.S.
Nov 14th, 2017 at 9:42pm
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Plus the beds are much more comfortable! 

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is-so-successful-2014-1...

Anders Breivik has only a one in five probability of mass murdering again when he gets out which will be real soon since he was only sentenced to twenty-one years* which is less than four months for each of his mass-murder victims.  Coming soon to a playground near you!

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/25/world/europe/anders-behring-breivik-murder-tri...


So if we adopt Norway's system, assuming it works as well in he U.S. as it does in Norway, only two thousand out of every ten thousand rehabilitated rapists and murderers we release would rape and murder again.

Anyone want to have one of the twenty-percenters working at their kids' daycare?  Come on, show of hands . . . 

*Actually, Norway isn't that dumb.  Apparently judges can keep adding time to the absurdly low sentences Norway law specifies so that when rehabilitation fails, the violent offenders stay locked up.  If we could do that here, I'd be all for rehabilitation as long as judges who don't keep violent offenders in prison have to let them live in their basement apartments.


  
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Jeff
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Re: Norway Prisons have only a 20% Recidivism Rate. Much better than U.S.
Reply #1 - Nov 15th, 2017 at 5:23pm
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burnsred wrote on Nov 14th, 2017 at 9:42pm:
So if we adopt Norway's system, assuming it works as well in he U.S. as it does in Norway, only two thousand out of every ten thousand rehabilitated rapists and murderers we release would rape and murder again.
What is Norway's "system" for rehabilitating violent criminals? If Norway's judges are constantly acting to override it, maybe it isn't so good?

IDK, what is it?


Edit: To be fair, maybe it's Norway's Judges that aren't so good?
  
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Don_G
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Re: Norway Prisons have only a 20% Recidivism Rate. Much better than U.S.
Reply #2 - Nov 15th, 2017 at 7:31pm
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burnsred wrote on Nov 14th, 2017 at 9:42pm:
Plus the beds are much more comfortable! 

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is-so-successful-2014-1...

Anders Breivik has only a one in five probability of mass murdering again when he gets out which will be real soon since he was only sentenced to twenty-one years* which is less than four months for each of his mass-murder victims.  Coming soon to a playground near you!


21 years seems excessively long to me. And we know that the longer the prison term, the more possibility of reoffending.

I know this all sticks in your extreme rightist craw burnsred. The facts are on the table.

Norway has far less repeat offenders.
The recidivism rate is much lower.
The cost of the prison system is much less.

It's your money, spend your tax dollares in the way you think is the wisest!


  
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Jeff
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Re: Norway Prisons have only a 20% Recidivism Rate. Much better than U.S.
Reply #3 - Nov 15th, 2017 at 7:36pm
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Don_G wrote on Nov 15th, 2017 at 7:31pm:
21 years seems excessively long to me. And we know that the longer the prison term, the more possibility of reoffending.



No, if you make it long enough, they die in prison. That's the idea behind life sentences.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Norway Prisons have only a 20% Recidivism Rate. Much better than U.S.
Reply #4 - Nov 15th, 2017 at 7:37pm
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Don_G wrote on Nov 15th, 2017 at 7:31pm:
Norway has far less repeat offenders.
The recidivism rate is much lower.

That's the same thing dolt.
  
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burnsred
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Re: Norway Prisons have only a 20% Recidivism Rate. Much better than U.S.
Reply #5 - Nov 15th, 2017 at 8:06pm
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Don_G wrote on Nov 15th, 2017 at 7:31pm:
21 years seems excessively long to me. And we know that the longer the prison term, the more possibility of reoffending.

I know this all sticks in your extreme rightist craw burnsred. The facts are on the table.

Norway has far less repeat offenders.
The recidivism rate is much lower.
The cost of the prison system is much less.

It's your money, spend your tax dollares in the way you think is the wisest!


Do you agree with the Norwegian system of allowing judges to extend the sentences of people who do not appear to be rehabilitated?  No doubt that's the key to their low recidivism rate, keeping those likely to re-offend locked up indefinitely.

Which is what you favor, right?


  
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Jeff
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Re: Norway Prisons have only a 20% Recidivism Rate. Much better than U.S.
Reply #6 - Nov 15th, 2017 at 8:13pm
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burnsred wrote on Nov 15th, 2017 at 8:06pm:
Do you agree with the Norwegian system of allowing judges to extend the sentences of people who do not appear to be rehabilitated?  No doubt that's the key to their low recidivism rate, keeping those likely to re-offend locked up indefinitely.




Shocked You mean they really haven't figured out how to rehabilitate violent criminals? Shocked
  
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burnsred
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Re: Norway Prisons have only a 20% Recidivism Rate. Much better than U.S.
Reply #7 - Nov 15th, 2017 at 8:30pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 15th, 2017 at 8:13pm:
Shocked You mean they really haven't figured out how to rehabilitate violent criminals? Shocked
Not in the way that Don_G means it which is rehabilitate them instead of long sentences.  Norwegians rehabilitate criminals by the exact means that I proposed to Don that made him so mad:  keep them locked up until they are no longer a threat to hurt someone.


  
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Don_G
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Re: Norway Prisons have only a 20% Recidivism Rate. Much better than U.S.
Reply #8 - Nov 15th, 2017 at 10:54pm
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burnsred wrote on Nov 15th, 2017 at 8:30pm:
Not in the way that Don_G means it which is rehabilitate them instead of long sentences.  Norwegians rehabilitate criminals by the exact means that I proposed to Don that made him so mad:  keep them locked up until they are no longer a threat to hurt someone.

But burnsred, you only think I opposed keeping prisoners locked up until the weren't a threat anymore. Your misunderstanding is excusable because all this is 'foreign' to you. Foreign as in strange and new.

Do you actuallly have any argument against how they're doing it? Or have we run out of something to debate?

No system is perfect and so some will reoffend. But that takes us full circle back to comparing their 20% recidivism rate to that of the US.

And we haven't even started to talk about the US's outrageously high incarceration numbers!

None of this should be kneejerk reactions burnsred. It's a conceept that took even me a while to get totally into and I'm what you would call a bleeding heart socialism.(I'm not really, I'm a capitalist)

And the really big consideration is that for libertarians, the concept is solid because it recognizes their social concerns for their fellow Americans, but most of all it reduces taxes.

Think it over and come back  with your argument againit it, if indeed you still have one?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Norway Prisons have only a 20% Recidivism Rate. Much better than U.S.
Reply #9 - Nov 16th, 2017 at 6:37am
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Don_G wrote on Nov 15th, 2017 at 10:54pm:
Do you actuallly have any argument against how they're doing it?
How do the Norwegian Judges know when a violent criminal has been rehabilitated? That must be the key to their lower recidivism rate?

Or maybe the U.S. recidivism rate is high because we lock up so many non-violent drug "offenders" and when they get out, they go back to selling drugs?


  
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