Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › My economics teacher had this to say about Von Mises and Hayek...
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 8 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) My economics teacher had this to say about Von Mises and Hayek... (Read 488 times)
DontTread44
Libertarian Full Member
***
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 50
Joined: Nov 22nd, 2016
My economics teacher had this to say about Von Mises and Hayek...
Nov 30th, 2017 at 5:44pm
Print Post  
He said principles advocated by Von Mises and Hayek were implemented into economic policies in Kansas, which was one of the most thriving states in the Union. He said as a result of these policies, Kansas is now among the poorest. (I checked, and they are actually at no. 27 on the rich to poor list)

He also likened their policies to Somalia, where there is apparently anarchy. And he said things were going terrible there. But I question whether a state is still present there or not, defining true anarchy.

He said word for word Von Mises and Hayek argue "taxation is theft", and he proposed the question, "what are you supposed to do instead?", which doesn't really justify the morality of taxation but still, he is a biased douche.

What are your takes on this?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 23292
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: My economics teacher had this to say about Von Mises and Hayek...
Reply #1 - Nov 30th, 2017 at 5:48pm
Print Post  
DontTread44 wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 5:44pm:
He said principles advocated by Von Mises and Hayek were implemented into economic policies in Kansas, which was one of the most thriving states in the Union. He said as a result of these policies, Kansas is now among the poorest. (I checked, and they are actually at no. 27 on the rich to poor list)

He also likened their policies to Somalia, where there is apparently anarchy. And he said things were going terrible there. But I question whether a state is still present there or not, defining true anarchy.

He said word for word Von Mises and Hayek argue "taxation is theft", and he proposed the question, "what are you supposed to do instead?", which doesn't really justify the morality of taxation but still, he is a biased douche.

What are your takes on this?
That he's a lying sack of shit, and you are a fool if you believed him.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 5925
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: My economics teacher had this to say about Von Mises and Hayek...
Reply #2 - Nov 30th, 2017 at 6:04pm
Print Post  
DontTread44 wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 5:44pm:
He said principles advocated by Von Mises and Hayek were implemented into economic policies in Kansas, which was one of the most thriving states in the Union. He said as a result of these policies, Kansas is now among the poorest. (I checked, and they are actually at no. 27 on the rich to poor list)

He also likened their policies to Somalia, where there is apparently anarchy. And he said things were going terrible there. But I question whether a state is still present there or not, defining true anarchy.

He said word for word Von Mises and Hayek argue "taxation is theft", and he proposed the question, "what are you supposed to do instead?", which doesn't really justify the morality of taxation but still, he is a biased douche.

What are your takes on this?


He told you the truth on Kansas's economy being nearly completely destroyed by their taxation experiment. That's recorded history.

But he may have goine too far because only 95% of the class would accept what he had to say. Economics professors are supposed to pretend and be politically correct so people like you don't make too much noise and try to get them fired.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 23292
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: My economics teacher had this to say about Von Mises and Hayek...
Reply #3 - Nov 30th, 2017 at 6:44pm
Print Post  
Don_G wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 6:04pm:
He told you the truth on Kansas's economy being nearly completely destroyed by their taxation experiment. That's recorded history.

But he may have goine too far because only 95% of the class would accept what he had to say. Economics professors are supposed to pretend and be politically correct so people like you don't make too much noise and try to get them fired.
Mises and Hayek argued from both theory and evidence that economic liberty was both moral and efficient.

If the Kansas government managed to screw up economic liberty through taxation, that was a government problem.

Any sort of theory of economic liberty assumes/requires no/limited  government interference, which means minimal taxation. I learned that from Mises and Hayek.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
merkelstan
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 686
Joined: Jan 22nd, 2017
Re: My economics teacher had this to say about Von Mises and Hayek...
Reply #4 - Dec 1st, 2017 at 3:28am
Print Post  
DontTread44 wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 5:44pm:
He said principles advocated by Von Mises and Hayek were implemented into economic policies in Kansas, which was one of the most thriving states in the Union. He said as a result of these policies, Kansas is now among the poorest. (I checked, and they are actually at no. 27 on the rich to poor list)


Statists will always say any problem is due to not enough state intervention or direct control.


but...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ahhell
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 1399
Joined: Sep 21st, 2016
Re: My economics teacher had this to say about Von Mises and Hayek...
Reply #5 - Dec 1st, 2017 at 9:42am
Print Post  
Once he brought up Somalia, you could dismiss anything else he says on the subject.  Rule by thugs is not a libertarian ideal and only fools or liars think otherwise.

There's argument to be made about Kansas but his Somalia example indicates he won't have it honestly. 

I recommend you drop the class, if you can't, keep your head down and tell him what he wants to hear.  Tell your class mates that he's full of shit though. 

An alternative view on Kansas:
https://www.cato.org/blog/three-lessons-tax-defeat-kansas

Quote:
What went wrong? First, the legislature failed to eliminate politically popular exemptions and deductions, making the initial revenue drop more severe than the governor planned. The legislature and the governor could have reduced government spending to offset the decrease in revenue, but they also failed on that front. Government spending per capita remained relatively stable in the years following the recession to the present, despite the constant fiscal crises. In fact, state expenditure reports from the National Association of State Budget Officers show that total state expenditures in Kansas increased every year except 2013,
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 4756
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: My economics teacher had this to say about Von Mises and Hayek...
Reply #6 - Dec 1st, 2017 at 11:44am
Print Post  
The 2 reasons the Kansas Tax Cuts failed are precisely the same 2 reasons Trumps tax Cuts will fail..

1)  Tax cuts for the rich won't ever trickle down the working-class.   For growth to happen, Tax Cuts must go to the consumers to allow them to keep more of their earnings. They will spend it on consumable goods, the velocity of money goes up, and growth happens. 

2)  Tax Cuts unaccompanied by spending cuts will always end in deficits and failure.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 5925
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: My economics teacher had this to say about Von Mises and Hayek...
Reply #7 - Dec 1st, 2017 at 12:02pm
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Dec 1st, 2017 at 11:44am:
The 2 reasons the Kansas Tax Cuts failed are precisely the same 2 reasons Trumps tax Cuts will fail..

1)  Tax cuts for the rich won't ever trickle down the working-class.   For growth to happen, Tax Cuts must go to the consumers to allow them to keep more of their earnings. They will spend it on consumable goods, the velocity of money goes up, and growth happens. 

2)  Tax Cuts unaccompanied by spending cuts will always end in deficits and failure.


There's some truth in that Chief. But you have to realize that it's dead on for Keynsian economics and dead opposite of supplyside economics. That's great but it's unwittingly flying directly in the face of the rightist opinions that are driving the political views of this forum.

So you now knowing that, as you have probably learned a little about supplyside economics, what is the libertarian position? Your posltion?

Keynesian?
Supply Side?
Neither?
Both?
A Hybrid of both?

That's how the Laffer Curve works! The theory is, for others who don't know, that if you lower taxes on the SS then you hit a point on the Laffer curve at which you increas revenue to the government in taxes.

Keynesian economics espouse the exact opposite.

I wonder if anybody on this forum even has the balls to admit they're supply siders anymore? There's a right answer to my question chief and a libertarian should get it immediately.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 4756
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: My economics teacher had this to say about Von Mises and Hayek...
Reply #8 - Dec 1st, 2017 at 12:29pm
Print Post  
Don_G wrote on Dec 1st, 2017 at 12:02pm:
There's some truth in that Chief. But you have to realize that it's dead on for Keynsian economics and dead opposite of supplyside economics.

Thanks.

Quote:
what is the libertarian position? Your posltion?

Keynesian?
Supply Side?
Neither?
Both?
A Hybrid of both?

I can't speak for other libertarians. If I must be placed in some economic belief system, it would be Austrian economics [laissez-faire].
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 5925
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: My economics teacher had this to say about Von Mises and Hayek...
Reply #9 - Dec 1st, 2017 at 12:37pm
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Dec 1st, 2017 at 12:29pm:
Thanks.

I can't speak for other libertarians. If I must be placed in some economic belief system, it would be Austrian economics [laissez-faire].


And thank you for your reply. I included 'neither' in my choices but that's not realistic in my opinion so I'm glad you didn't choose it because that would have led to disagreement.

However, supply siders seem to contend that the Austrian school is consistent with their Supply side theories.

Fwiw, I think you should take a closer look at Keynesian theory.

My main point is that I would like to see this as a start to a serious discussion by some of the others. They may not be capable because of anger over having their supply side views exposed to scrutiny. But one thing for sure is that most of them 'are' supplysiders!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 8
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › My economics teacher had this to say about Von Mises and Hayek...
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy