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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Socially Responsible Capitalism. (Read 1192 times)
Don_G
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Socially Responsible Capitalism.
Dec 2nd, 2017 at 2:33pm
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https://www.opednews.com/articles/America-needs-a-socially-r-by-Gary-Brumback-11...

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The policy also needs to delineate government's proper obligations and role both in society and in its market place so as to strike a balance between total government rule on the one hand and total market rule on the other. This policy would do well to reflect Abraham Lincoln's view that the proper role of government "is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do at all, or can not so well do, for themselves-in their separate and individual capacities." 
  
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thermf5
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Re: Socially Responsible Capitalism.
Reply #1 - Dec 2nd, 2017 at 5:04pm
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don g if this idea was baseD on individual responsibility  and got rid of the bystand efect that ceos get then maby is could work but to trust the government with it would mean it would not be capitalism but a mixed ecomimey
  
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Jeff
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Re: Socially Responsible Capitalism.
Reply #2 - Dec 2nd, 2017 at 7:04pm
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Don_G wrote on Dec 2nd, 2017 at 2:33pm:

Wouldn't another new thread about Norway have been a better tool to teach us "social responsibility"?
  
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burnsred
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Re: Socially Responsible Capitalism.
Reply #3 - Dec 3rd, 2017 at 9:41pm
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This policy would do well to reflect Abraham Lincoln's view that the proper role of government "is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do at all, or can not so well do, for themselves-in their separate and individual capacities." 
Abraham Lincoln allowed states who remained in  his United States to maintain the slavery of African-Americans in order to have that forced labor to further his war effort.  His war effort consisted of sending hundreds of thousands of conscripted slaves to a neighboring country in order to enslave that country.  When that country resisted and won the initial battles, Lincoln ordered his generals to attack the civilian population, burning crops and homes in order to demoralize them and break their resistance to the invasion.

You're quoting him as a moral authority, why?
  
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Don_G
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Re: Socially Responsible Capitalism.
Reply #4 - Dec 4th, 2017 at 12:00am
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Jeff wrote on Dec 2nd, 2017 at 7:04pm:
Wouldn't another new thread about Norway have been a better tool to teach us "social responsibility"?


I think the best idea would be for your country to have another civil war so the north could wipe the racist south off the map and use the land for raising something decent instead of racists.

Give socially responsible capitalism a chance!
  
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Jeff
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Re: Socially Responsible Capitalism.
Reply #5 - Dec 4th, 2017 at 9:28am
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burnsred wrote on Dec 3rd, 2017 at 9:41pm:
Abraham Lincoln allowed states who remained in  his United States to maintain the slavery of African-Americans in order to have that forced labor to further his war effort.  His war effort consisted of sending hundreds of thousands of conscripted slaves to a neighboring country in order to enslave that country.  When that country resisted and won the initial battles, Lincoln ordered his generals to attack the civilian population, burning crops and homes in order to demoralize them and break their resistance to the invasion.

You're quoting him as a moral authority, why?
You are describing Lincoln and the Civil War in a very narrow way.

There was a larger issue, which was the expansion of human slavery as a government supported institution across America. That's what the Confederacy intended, and that intention was high motivation for abolitionists. And it was abolitionists who were driving State and national politics in the free states, as well as going to Kansas and Missouri in order to fight against the slave owners who were also going to Kansas and Missouri to fight the war over whether those states would sanction slavery or prohibit it.

You must not forget that slave owners claimed a 'right' to own people and had prevailed in having laws passed that required free people to act as agents of the government in capturing and returning escaped slaves to their 'owners'.

Yes. War is horrible, and horrible things are often done to win wars, whether the war itself seems justified or not. Lincoln was not alone in believing that preserving the United States justified the war and his decisions on how to best fight and win it.

Edit: Anyway, I don't believe the sentiment on government attributed to Lincoln is something he actually said. I'd have to see and read it in context.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Socially Responsible Capitalism.
Reply #6 - Dec 4th, 2017 at 11:35am
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Jeff wrote on Dec 4th, 2017 at 9:28am:
You are describing Lincoln and the Civil War in a very narrow way.

There was a larger issue, which was the expansion of human slavery as a government supported institution across America. That's what the Confederacy intended, and that intention was high motivation for abolitionists. And it was abolitionists who were driving State and national politics in the free states, as well as going to Kansas and Missouri in order to fight against the slave owners who were also going to Kansas and Missouri to fight the war over whether those states would sanction slavery or prohibit it.

You must not forget that slave owners claimed a 'right' to own people and had prevailed in having laws passed that required free people to act as agents of the government in capturing and returning escaped slaves to their 'owners'.

Yes. War is horrible, and horrible things are often done to win wars, whether the war itself seems justified or not. Lincoln was not alone in believing that preserving the United States justified the war and his decisions on how to best fight and win it.

Edit: Anyway, I don't believe the sentiment on government attributed to Lincoln is something he actually said. I'd have to see and read it in context.

You need another civil war to get things straightened out. The south and burnsred haven't been able to get over losing their slaves.

Or maybe just move on and worry about the mess your country is in today? You've all refought that war enough times and it just makeseverybody more angry.

Anyway, this thread is meant to teach you about socially responsible capitalism.
  
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burnsred
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Re: Socially Responsible Capitalism.
Reply #7 - Dec 4th, 2017 at 5:01pm
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Jeff wrote on Dec 4th, 2017 at 9:28am:
You are describing Lincoln and the Civil War in a very narrow way.

There was a larger issue, which was the expansion of human slavery as a government supported institution across America. That's what the Confederacy intended, and that intention was high motivation for abolitionists. And it was abolitionists who were driving State and national politics in the free states, as well as going to Kansas and Missouri in order to fight against the slave owners who were also going to Kansas and Missouri to fight the war over whether those states would sanction slavery or prohibit it.

You must not forget that slave owners claimed a 'right' to own people and had prevailed in having laws passed that required free people to act as agents of the government in capturing and returning escaped slaves to their 'owners'.


You are aware that Lincoln allowed slavery to continue in the U.S. so that his war to enslave the Confederacy (or as he would put it, preserve the union) would be easier to fight, correct?  More on this subject later, but you need to know as soon as possible how vehemently Abraham Lincoln disagreed with your description of his motivation for invading the Confederacy:

Executive Mansion,
Washington, August 22, 1862.

Hon. Horace Greeley:
Dear Sir.

I have just read yours of the 19th. addressed to myself through the New-York Tribune. If there be in it any statements, or assumptions of fact, which I may know to be erroneous, I do not, now and here, controvert them. If there be in it any inferences which I may believe to be falsely drawn, I do not now and here, argue against them. If there be perceptable in it an impatient and dictatorial tone, I waive it in deference to an old friend, whose heart I have always supposed to be right.

As to the policy I "seem to be pursuing" as you say, I have not meant to leave any one in doubt.

I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.

I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men every where could be free.

Yours,
A. Lincoln.


http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/greeley.htm

Lincoln was personally opposed to slavery he claimed.  No doubt many slave owners knew in their hearts that slavery was wrong.  But like any Alabama tobacco farmer, Lincoln was willing to keep slaves when it suited his purpose. 

Yes, slavery is the most evil form of statism and statism it was and is because no slavery can exist without the government at least allowing it if not assisting it.  But the Civil War was not about slavery it was about whether the states, having joined the union voluntarily, could leave it voluntarily.  You're the board's constitutionalist; show me in the constitution where it says that no state may leave the union once having joined it.

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Yes. War is horrible, and horrible things are often done to win wars, whether the war itself seems justified or not.
That logic could be used to justify any atrocity in any war.  The only war I could support would be a war in which the U.S. was invaded or in which my state were invaded having left the United States.  Even in such an obviously just war, I would not support using slave labor, slave soldiers or attacking the "enemy" civilians.  You understand that when Sherman burned the crops of people in the states he invaded, he intended to starve all of them, black, white and brown.  He left no special stores of food for the slaves.

They did leave black eyed peas, thinking it was food for animals that the soldiers might steal liberate later on.  Instead the confederates lived on those peas which is why black eyed peas are considered good luck.


  
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Jeff
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Re: Socially Responsible Capitalism.
Reply #8 - Dec 4th, 2017 at 5:44pm
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burnsred wrote on Dec 4th, 2017 at 5:01pm:
You are aware that Lincoln allowed slavery to continue in the U.S. so that his war to enslave the Confederacy (or as he would put it, preserve the union)...
Yes, and I believe that's exactly what he felt he had to do.

A Commander in Chief in time of war who did not do his best to win the war would be, in my opinion a traitor.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Socially Responsible Capitalism.
Reply #9 - Dec 4th, 2017 at 5:51pm
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burnsred wrote on Dec 4th, 2017 at 5:01pm:
That logic could be used to justify any atrocity in any war.
I was not justifying atrocities in war. I was pointing out that war can be justified at times.

What do you think President Lincoln should have done when Congress declared war? Declined to do his job? If he felt strongly that Congress was wrong to declare war, so wrong that he could not in good conscience prosecute the war, he should have resigned.

Had he done that, there would have been a war over slavery in America anyway. A war between the Union and the Confederacy over control of the Western Territories as slave or Free.
  
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