Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Socially Responsible Capitalism.
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8 ... 26 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Socially Responsible Capitalism. (Read 1200 times)
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 23292
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Socially Responsible Capitalism.
Reply #50 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 6:53pm
Print Post  
burnsred wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 4:53pm:
I believe that the people in that U.S. military installation were asked several times to leave by the government of the nation it was located in. 
Military bases like Fort Sumter were U.S. property according to the Constitution. That the state they were located in left the Union did not make U.S. property into their property.
That South Carolina claimed U.S. property by force was the trespass. Breach of contract.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 5925
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: Socially Responsible Capitalism.
Reply #51 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 6:55pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 4:12pm:
Piss off liar.


Alright then some tough love for you. You're going to hear a lot more about it in the interest of curtailing your use of narcoticss. You will either change your miserable demeanour or you will suffer the logical consequences of your actions.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 23292
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Socially Responsible Capitalism.
Reply #52 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 6:57pm
Print Post  
burnsred wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 4:53pm:
Actually, the congress never declared war on anyone during the Civil War.
You are correct, Congress authorized the President to prosecute the war. I will be more careful in my phrasing. Congress made the authorization after the CSA attacked Fort Sumter.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 23292
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Socially Responsible Capitalism.
Reply #53 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 7:01pm
Print Post  
burnsred wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 4:53pm:
The slave owners of United States had not at that point joined the civilized world and freed their slaves.  The United States was highly dedicated to the proposition of human slavery and the "right" to own slaves was specifically protected in several clauses of the U.S. Constitution.
Slavery was mentioned in the Constitution as part of the ugly compromise that convinced the slave states to join the United States of America.

Other than the slave owners, America was decidedly not "dedicated to the proposition of slavery" and quite a few years before the Civil War, the rest of America was sick of it and didn't want the barbaric practice extended across North America.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 5925
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: Socially Responsible Capitalism.
Reply #54 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 7:16pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 7:01pm:
Slavery was mentioned in the Constitution as part of the ugly compromise that convinced the slave states to join the United States of America.

Other than the slave owners, America was decidedly not "dedicated to the proposition of slavery" and quite a few years before the Civil War, the rest of America was sick of it and didn't want the barbaric practice extended across North America.


Thank you Jeff. I have to admit that I learn a little bit while you're teaching burnsred.

And as for him, he really needs to get over the lost war and the fact that the nigras he hates are now his equals under the law.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
burnsred
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 1065
Joined: Sep 11th, 2017
Re: Socially Responsible Capitalism.
Reply #55 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 8:23pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 7:01pm:
Slavery was mentioned in the Constitution as part of the ugly compromise that convinced the slave states to join the United States of America.

Other than the slave owners, America was decidedly not "dedicated to the proposition of slavery" and quite a few years before the Civil War, the rest of America was sick of it and didn't want the barbaric practice extended across North America.
Mentioned?  It was carefully preserved.

If the northern states were so dedicated to abolition of slavery, why did they even want the slaveholding states?  Why was the U.S.' first president an owner of a plantation full of slaves?  Why was the author of the Declaration of Independence a slaveholder most famous for raping his slaves and leaving bi-racial offspring whose grandchildren are around today?

I'd love your answer to this one:  Why did they not at least free the slaves of Delaware, those awesome dedicated abolitionists?  Too few to bother with?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Thumper
Libertarians Full Member
***
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 109
Location: Midwest
Joined: Dec 4th, 2017
Re: Socially Responsible Capitalism.
Reply #56 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 11:06pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 8:54am:
Yes, the tariff issue. It was not a life or death issue for "the North". The National government had Constitutional authority through powers of Congress to levy other types of taxes.
Certainly rich slave owners in the South hated the tariff, because they were basically third world countries that exported commodities and imported manufactured goods, mainly from Europe.

No one in the South who wasn't a rich slave owner was exporting lots of commodities and paying lots of tax on imported goods from Europe... But the big plantation owners were, and they also happened to be the people who controlled the State governments and sent Senators to Congress.

They wanted to preserve their "way of life" which was being rich cronies who controlled the governments of their states and had enough power in Congress to get the Fugitive Slave Act made the law of the U.S., so that their "property" would be returned to them when it escaped, and their slaves could keep producing commodities for them to sell, so they could keep buying luxuries from Europe.



So you're telling me that loosing the source of more than 50 percent of federal revenue was no big deal?

As I  explained. Slavery didn't even come into the picture as far as reasoning for the war until it already started.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Thumper
Libertarians Full Member
***
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 109
Location: Midwest
Joined: Dec 4th, 2017
Re: Socially Responsible Capitalism.
Reply #57 - Dec 7th, 2017 at 2:48am
Print Post  
Anyway. It seems this topic went off topic as soon as it started.

I would like to hear Dons definition of socially responsible capitalism. Cause everything that I've read about it looks heavily regulated and eventually turns to cronyism.

Pure capitalism is already socially responsible. But it requires that everyone in that society be responsible for themselves.

Please keep in mind that all we have ever experienced in the US is crony-capitalism.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 23292
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Socially Responsible Capitalism.
Reply #58 - Dec 7th, 2017 at 7:35am
Print Post  
burnsred wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 8:23pm:
Mentioned?  It was carefully preserved.


You need to learn a little.
https://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_slav.html

Article I, Sect.2, clause 3 refers to slaves as counting toward the apportionment of Representatives.

That was part of the ugly compromise I mentioned. The slave states would not join the union without it. Nobody else liked it.

The only other mention of slavery in the Constitution is to abolish it and forbid it.

As I have previously mentioned, the presence of the three world superpowers of the time (all monarchies that hated the idea behind America) all had strong presences in the Americas. The Founders of America feared that without the slave states, they would not have been strong enough to remain in existence for long at all. So they accepted the ugly compromise.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 23292
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Socially Responsible Capitalism.
Reply #59 - Dec 7th, 2017 at 7:49am
Print Post  
Thumper wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 11:06pm:
So you're telling me that loosing the source of more than 50 percent of federal revenue was no big deal?

As I  explained. Slavery didn't even come into the picture as far as reasoning for the war until it already started.
The American Whig Party was destroyed by the issue of slavery. Slave states were threatening secession a decade before the war. Citizens were fighting each other in the territories over whether the states to be created out of the territories were to be free or slave. Texas threatened to send it's militia to New Mexico to fight the U.S. troops there in order to make sure New Mexico was constituted as a slave state.

The tariff had been an issue for a long time, but it had nothing to do with that things I just mentioned, which all related directly to the issue of slavery in North America.

Secession was not embarked upon in order to allow the rich plantation owners to buy imported luxury goods cheaper. Sorry. There is no evidence for that. The South hated the tariff... except for the Whigs, of which there were many in the South for a long time.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8 ... 26
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Socially Responsible Capitalism.
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy