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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) How is government to blame for inflated healthcare costs.... (Read 251 times)
Don_G
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Re: How is government to blame for inflated healthcare costs....
Reply #30 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 2:28pm
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burnsred wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 1:46pm:
Ironically, I was in a doctor's office waiting room when I just read that.  I was going to give a lengthy answer, but all the Canadians chattering about how they don't have to deal with that "hoser" health care system and how they have waiting lists not waiting rooms were pretty distracting.

What were you saying again?



I just thought I should say it all and then equate it with your gun problem because I see them both as being ignored for the same basic reasons.

If you want to compare healthcare systems then I'm into doing that. But really, that's not the topic and ignoring the topic is not getting us anywhere. Actually, I'm quite surprised you would be coming back to me now after Ron Paul completely blew all your talking points completely out of the water!

But so be it burnsred, let's do the comparing if that's what you want to do.

Our healthcare system is rated better than yours by quite a good margin. But all the other healthcare systems in the modern world are also rated as better than yours. Of note is singapore's which is government run universal healthcare that included 'copays' as a distinction.

On Canada's healthcare system specifically now. Our waiting lines for some procedures are longer than in the US. This is quite obviously due to funding or the lack of funding. Our Liberal government is much more intent on upholding our system and therefore is always more attentive to adequate funding. This is directly related to waiting lists. On the other hand, the Conservatives always resist funding and hence lower the quality of our system over a period of years they are in power.

None of that is anything that I think you will disagree with, but if you do then comment on it. It 'is' after all, directly related to taxation.

It's worth mentioned that our healthcare cost per capita is a little more than half the cost of the US system. And so I need to ask you how you can square that with the stats that place ours better than yours overall? I mention that because I think it reinforces my comments on funding.

Could Canada bring our cost for healthcare per capita up to the same level as the US and eliminate waiting lines?

The fact is, all the other highly successful healthcare plans in the world do just that in comparison to the US at much lower cost!
  
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burnsred
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Re: How is government to blame for inflated healthcare costs....
Reply #31 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 2:33pm
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Don_G wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 2:28pm:
I just thought I should say it all and then equate it with your gun problem because I see them both as being ignored for the same basic reasons.

If you want to compare healthcare systems then I'm into doing that. But really, that's not the topic and ignoring the topic is not getting us anywhere. Actually, I'm quite surprised you would be coming back to me now after Ron Paul completely blew all your talking points completely out of the water!

But so be it burnsred, let's do the comparing if that's what you want to do.

Our healthcare system is rated better than yours by quite a good margin. But all the other healthcare systems in the modern world are also rated as better than yours. Of note is singapore's which is government run universal healthcare that included 'copays' as a distinction.

On Canada's healthcare system specifically now. Our waiting lines for some procedures are longer than in the US. This is quite obviously due to funding or the lack of funding. Our Liberal government is much more intent on upholding our system and therefore is always more attentive to adequate funding. This is directly related to waiting lists. On the other hand, the Conservatives always resist funding and hence lower the quality of our system over a period of years they are in power.

None of that is anything that I think you will disagree with, but if you do then comment on it. It 'is' after all, directly related to taxation.

It's worth mentioned that our healthcare cost per capita is a little more than half the cost of the US system. And so I need to ask you how you can square that with the stats that place ours better than yours overall? I mention that because I think it reinforces my comments on funding.

Could Canada bring our cost for healthcare per capita up to the same level as the US and eliminate waiting lines?

The fact is, all the other highly successful healthcare plans in the world do just that in comparison to the US at much lower cost!
I honestly can't say that a flood of words is more convincing than the flood of people from Canada and other nations who flood our health care system in order not to die from cheap care or die on wating lists.

Facts, not polls, are what I find convincing.

  
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Don_G
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Re: How is government to blame for inflated healthcare costs....
Reply #32 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 7:43pm
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burnsred wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 2:33pm:
I honestly can't say that a flood of words is more convincing than the flood of people from Canada and other nations who flood our health care system in order not to die from cheap care or die on wating lists.

Facts, not polls, are what I find convincing.



If it was true to any extent then it would be bringing dollars into your country and contributing to your healthcare system's success.

But we know that's not the case don't we. You need to address the problem and stop trying to make inaccurate comparisons to other countries.

Do you need to be told what you have to address? Just in case you do, here it is:

Quote:
In these United States of America, many people cannot afford even basic health insurance. They suffer severely under the present system and have to live under the constant fear of not knowing what they will do if they or their loved ones ever fall seriously ill.


And as if that wasn't bad enough to destroy your entire argument?

[quote]But in many cases, insured individuals aren’t much better off either. In comparison to the exorbitant insurance premiums they pay, the medical care they receive is [b\often very poor.[/b]

Just in case you care, that was Ron Paul speaking. Who's a libertarian to believe burnsred? You? Keep coming back for more punishment, we're on a roll now!
  
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Jeff
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Re: How is government to blame for inflated healthcare costs....
Reply #33 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 7:51pm
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Don_G wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 7:43pm:
If it was true to any extent then it would be bringing dollars into your country and contributing to your healthcare system's success.

But we know that's not the case don't we. You need to address the problem and stop trying to make inaccurate comparisons to other countries.

Do you need to be told what you have to address? Just in case you do, here it is:


And as if that wasn't bad enough to destroy your entire argument?

[quote]But in many cases, insured individuals aren’t much better off either. In comparison to the exorbitant insurance premiums they pay, the medical care they receive is [b\often very poor.[/b]

Just in case you care, that was Ron Paul speaking. Who's a libertarian to believe burnsred? You? Keep coming back for more punishment, we're on a roll now!

Your claim is that central planning and bureaucratic administration are the best for everything, or just for health care in Hawaii, which you say is somehow special and different??
  
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Don_G
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Re: How is government to blame for inflated healthcare costs....
Reply #34 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 7:56pm
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Jeff wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 7:51pm:
Your claim is that central planning and bureaucratic administration are the best for everything, or just for health care in Hawaii, which you say is somehow special and different??


You're wrong again you ignorant POS. Ask questions and I will answer them. Start with 'the' question that's been bothering you for months now.
  
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burnsred
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Re: How is government to blame for inflated healthcare costs....
Reply #35 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 8:14pm
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Don_G wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 7:43pm:
If it was true to any extent then it would be bringing dollars into your country and contributing to your healthcare system's success.

But we know that's not the case don't we. You need to address the problem and stop trying to make inaccurate comparisons to other countries.

Do you need to be told what you have to address? Just in case you do, here it is:


And as if that wasn't bad enough to destroy your entire argument?

[quote]But in many cases, insured individuals aren’t much better off either. In comparison to the exorbitant insurance premiums they pay, the medical care they receive is [b\often very poor.[/b]

Just in case you care, that was Ron Paul speaking. Who's a libertarian to believe burnsred? You? Keep coming back for more punishment, we're on a roll now!
You keep citing Republican Ron Paul and Republican Donald Trump to me as if I've agreed to agree with anything they say.

There have been no cases of people dying because they had no health insurance.  When people have no health insurance, the sign an agreement to pay, get the treatment and later pay if they can or deal with debt collectors until the debt collectors realize they really can't pay or until they declare bankruptcy.

Yes, it's a terrible thing to face financial ruin over health care but financial ruin for individuals is often the result when government starts regulating things as they started regulating health care many decades ago.


  
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Don_G
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Re: How is government to blame for inflated healthcare costs....
Reply #36 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 1:00pm
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burnsred wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 8:14pm:
You keep citing Republican Ron Paul and Republican Donald Trump to me as if I've agreed to agree with anything they say.


I haven't cited Republican Trump on this issue. I'm definitely citing Libertarian Ron Paul on this because he's the libertarian hero of this forum's little covey of pseudo-libertarians. Not to say that you haven't voiced support of Trump on other issues.

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There have been no cases of people dying because they had no health insurance.  When people have no health insurance, the sign an agreement to pay, get the treatment and later pay if they can or deal with debt collectors until the debt collectors realize they really can't pay or until they declare bankruptcy.


That is not true because people die in your country because your healthcare system also has tiers of coverage that favour those with the big bucks who can afford the best. Don't try to lie to me on street people dying because of inferior last ditch coverage. And don't even try to pretend you would support anything else. You wouldn't!

And besides, Ron Paul the libertarian has exposed the truth on that very issue. Don't let it stick in your craw for too long.

Quote:
Yes, it's a terrible thing to face financial ruin over health care but financial ruin for individuals is often the result when government starts regulating things as they started regulating health care many decades ago.


Your excuses don't interest me. It all just boils down the the facts I've been trying to get you to acknowledge for weeks. I think maybe it's time for you to give it a rest.

Continue to punish yourselves by denying universal government run healthcare. Maybe it's worth it to you sort of people. Dog forbid the nigras will ever be the equals of the right in your country. It's your freedom to discriminate that's at stake!
  
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burnsred
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Re: How is government to blame for inflated healthcare costs....
Reply #37 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 1:34pm
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Don_G wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 1:00pm:
I haven't cited Republican Trump on this issue. I'm definitely citing Libertarian Ron Paul on this because he's the libertarian hero of this forum's little covey of pseudo-libertarians. Not to say that you haven't voiced support of Trump on other issues.
I support Trump on issues on which I agree with him and oppose Trump where I don't.  Same for Ron Paul who is no libertarian.  They are both Republicans.  Just as I agree with a Democrat when she wants to legalize marijuana, I agree with Republican when he wants to cut taxes.

Stop trying so desperately to avoid debating the issues by making it about personalities.

Quote:
That is not true because people die in your country because your healthcare system also has tiers of coverage that favour those with the big bucks who can afford the best. Don't try to lie to me on street people dying because of inferior last ditch coverage. And don't even try to pretend you would support anything else. You wouldn't!
Street people are on the street because they prefer their drugs or alcohol to getting help or because they are mentally ill and the ACLU sued for their right to live on the streets.  We could give them the kind of health care plans that our Obacare passing congressmen give themselves but it wouldn't make a bit of difference since they refuse all treatment.

Quote:
And besides, Ron Paul the libertarian has exposed the truth on that very issue. Don't let it stick in your craw for too long.
If I cared about Ron Paul's take on it, I'd get it from Ron Paul's website since you were wrong on the one factual claim you made about him.


Quote:
Your excuses don't interest me. It all just boils down the the facts I've been trying to get you to acknowledge for weeks. I think maybe it's time for you to give it a rest.

Continue to punish yourselves by denying universal government run healthcare. Maybe it's worth it to you sort of people. Dog forbid the nigras will ever be the equals of the right in your country. It's your freedom to discriminate that's at stake!
This really seems to be an emotional issue for you.  Have you gotten on a waiting list for mental health care yet?


  
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Don_G
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Re: How is government to blame for inflated healthcare costs....
Reply #38 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 2:19pm
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burnsred wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 1:34pm:
I support Trump on issues on which I agree with him and oppose Trump where I don't.  Same for Ron Paul who is no libertarian.  They are both Republicans.  Just as I agree with a Democrat when she wants to legalize marijuana, I agree with Republican when he wants to cut taxes.

Stop trying so desperately to avoid debating the issues by making it about personalities.

Street people are on the street because they prefer their drugs or alcohol to getting help or because they are mentally ill and the ACLU sued for their right to live on the streets.  We could give them the kind of health care plans that our Obacare passing congressmen give themselves but it wouldn't make a bit of difference since they refuse all treatment.


This is the only part of your post I believe needs a comment in any depth. There is little doubt we are ideologically opposed on how we perceive rights of street people, or in general 'all' people. I completely disagree with all you have said.

Quote:
If I cared about Ron Paul's take on it, I'd get it from Ron Paul's website since you were wrong on the one factual claim you made about him.


You care too much.


Quote:
This really seems to be an emotional issue for you.  Have you gotten on a waiting list for mental health care yet?




Unless you have something new to introduce to the topic of your healthcare's failing, I think this conversation is over.
  
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burnsred
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Re: How is government to blame for inflated healthcare costs....
Reply #39 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 3:02pm
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Don_G wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 2:19pm:
I think this conversation is over.
Ok, then.  I respect your choice.

If you change your mind, feel free to respond to me anytime on any thread.  Until then, you are free to ignore me, of course.

*starts stopwatch*
  
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