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burnsred
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An American is Nine Times More Likely to be Killed by a Police Officer
Dec 5th, 2017 at 9:17pm
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than by a terrorist.

Yet many statists want private ownership of bulletproof vests outlawed.

Go figure . . .

BTW, innocent civilians shot by police are routinely included in "shocking" statistics about gun violence even though no gun control advocate ever advocates disarming police.

  
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Jeff
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Re: An American is Nine Times More Likely to be Killed by a Police Officer
Reply #1 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 8:00am
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burnsred wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 9:17pm:
than by a terrorist.

Yet many statists want private ownership of bulletproof vests outlawed.

Go figure . . .

BTW, innocent civilians shot by police are routinely included in "shocking" statistics about gun violence even though no gun control advocate ever advocates disarming police.

Yeah, and I bet most of them are in (drug) gang infested areas in our "progressive" inner city ghettos where the gang members are always busy shooting each other and bystanders too.

900 so far this year in Baltimore and Chicago alone... and that's not people who were shot by the police either. It's even worse than during alcohol prohibition!
  
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ahhell
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Re: An American is Nine Times More Likely to be Killed by a Police Officer
Reply #2 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 9:28am
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burnsred wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 9:17pm:
than by a terrorist.

Yet many statists want private ownership of bulletproof vests outlawed.

Go figure . . .

BTW, innocent civilians shot by police are routinely included in "shocking" statistics about gun violence even though no gun control advocate ever advocates disarming police.

I have little trouble believing this but do you have source for this statistic?
  
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burnsred
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Re: An American is Nine Times More Likely to be Killed by a Police Officer
Reply #3 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 10:27am
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ahhell wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 9:28am:
I have little trouble believing this but do you have source for this statistic?


http://www.businessinsider.com/death-risk-statistics-terrorism-disease-accidents...

Fair question though.  Admittedly, this statistic is like the one about being more likely to die in a bathtub accident than a motorcycle accident.  Doesn't mean that bathtubs are more dangerous than motorcycles, just means that almost everyone has a bathtub, but a small fraction of us have motorcycles.

Still, it is important to know that police officers often view citizen taxpayers with the same eye as they view the criminal element that they are required to deal with.  They often treat us as if we owe them some evidence that we are not criminals and assume that they are entitled to question us even if we are minding our own business. 

This is not the fault of individual police officers who often start their jobs very idealistically.  But the system puts them at odds with citizen taxpayers that they are supposedly protecting.  They have a lot of pressure to treat citizens the same way their peers do.

We would like think that it's just a few bad apples, but look at the videos like the nurse being arrested for refusing a policeman's order to illegally draw blood from a patient.  If he was just one bad cop, where were the good cops?  There were several officers standing and watching and not one of them objected.  Why were so many officers even there?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yia7qs01z1M

I know this sounds like a "hate the pigs" rant, but it is not that at all.  They need better training and better leadership so that they can fulfill the ideals that motivated them to go into law enforcement.  We also need to end the practice of setting speed limits artificially low and having police officers act as defacto tax collectors by writing quotas of tickets.  For most people, the most common interaction with a police officer is getting pulled over and fined which doesn't help police/civilian relations at all.
 
  
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ahhell
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Re: An American is Nine Times More Likely to be Killed by a Police Officer
Reply #4 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 10:46am
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burnsred wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 10:27am:
http://www.businessinsider.com/death-risk-statistics-terrorism-disease-accidents...

Fair question though.  Admittedly, this statistic is like the one about being more likely to die in a bathtub accident than a motorcycle accident.  Doesn't mean that bathtubs are more dangerous than motorcycles, just means that almost everyone has a bathtub, but a small fraction of us have motorcycles.

Still, it is important to know that police officers often view citizen taxpayers with the same eye as they view the criminal element that they are required to deal with.  They often treat us as if we owe them some evidence that we are not criminals and assume that they are entitled to question us even if we are minding our own business. 

This is not the fault of individual police officers who often start their jobs very idealistically.  But the system puts them at odds with citizen taxpayers that they are supposedly protecting.  They have a lot of pressure to treat citizens the same way their peers do.

We would like think that it's just a few bad apples, but look at the videos like the nurse being arrested for refusing a policeman's order to illegally draw blood from a patient.  If he was just one bad cop, where were the good cops?  There were several officers standing and watching and not one of them objected.  Why were so many officers even there?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yia7qs01z1M

I know this sounds like a "hate the pigs" rant, but it is not that at all.  They need better training and better leadership so that they can fulfill the ideals that motivated them to go into law enforcement.  We also need to end the practice of setting speed limits artificially low and having police officers act as defacto tax collectors by writing quotas of tickets.  For most people, the most common interaction with a police officer is getting pulled over and fined which doesn't help police/civilian relations at all.
 
Pretty much agree with everything you've said there. 

The big problem with cops in the US is they have an US vs Them attitude where them is everybody who isn't a cop.  As you say, we need better training and better leadership.

Cops have a shitty job, even if they start as idealists, the majority of their job is dealing with criminals and other folks in their worst state.  It would be easy to start thinking everyone else is a criminal or victim. 


One thing I disagree with, the stat is more the measure of how extremely unlikely we are to be killed by terrorists than how likely we are to be killed by cops.  Afterall, I'm 26 times more likely to be struck by a meteor than killed by a terrorist. 
  
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Don_G
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Re: An American is Nine Times More Likely to be Killed by a Police Officer
Reply #5 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 12:07pm
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burnsred wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 9:17pm:
than by a terrorist.

Yet many statists want private ownership of bulletproof vests outlawed.

Go figure . . .

BTW, innocent civilians shot by police are routinely included in "shocking" statistics about gun violence even though no gun control advocate ever advocates disarming police.



It's proportional to Americans being nine times more likely to be killed by a gun than in other countries. And so you have provided evidence of the very high incidence of gun violence in your country.

But now you want to try to blame the police and singel them out. Of course US police are more corrupt than other police but it's not the reason why people are getting shot dead as often by non-police in your country.

Could it be the machine guns and the handguns? Nawwwwww, impossible! Undecided
  
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