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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) California Egg Law Too Far-Reaching & "unConstitutional" (Read 254 times)
SkyChief
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California Egg Law Too Far-Reaching & "unConstitutional"
Dec 6th, 2017 at 12:15pm
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More than a dozen states banded together Monday to ask the U.S. Supreme Court to block a California law requiring any eggs sold there to come from hens that have space to stretch out in their cages.

The lawsuit argues that California's requirements violate the U.S. Constitution's interstate commerce clause and are pre-empted by federal law.

https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/wisconsin-joins-12-others-in-legal-challeng...

Another example of out-of-control moonbat government.  This kind of madness can only come from Sacramento. All this legislation accomplishes is to drive up the cost of eggs and kill jobs.  I hope the Court rules against the California lawmakers.

Let's see some real Socially Responsible Capitalism.
  
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Don_G
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Re: California Egg Law Too Far-Reaching & "unConstitutional"
Reply #1 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 2:35pm
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SkyChief wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 12:15pm:
More than a dozen states banded together Monday to ask the U.S. Supreme Court to block a California law requiring any eggs sold there to come from hens that have space to stretch out in their cages.

The lawsuit argues that California's requirements violate the U.S. Constitution's interstate commerce clause and are pre-empted by federal law.

https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/wisconsin-joins-12-others-in-legal-challeng...

Another example of out-of-control moonbat government.  This kind of madness can only come from Sacramento. All this legislation accomplishes is to drive up the cost of eggs and kill jobs.  I hope the Court rules against the California lawmakers.

Let's see some real Socially Responsible Capitalism.

Beside the merit or lack of merit of the particular law which is really beside the point:

The point is to begin with, California has democratically decided to pass the law.

Other states are attempting to use the courts to dictate to California that they can't decide on their own as a state.

Those other states are then willing to INVOKE THE CONSTITUTION in order to make California abide by their wishes??

Is this your new style of libertarianism you've invented for us to  decide on pro or con? You know already I abhor this kind of dictatorial shit! I just can't fukking wait to hear the others support you on this one!

Go figure mr. libertarian!

----------------------------------------------

As to the merits of the law, there's no doubt it's well intentioned.
  
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ahhell
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Re: California Egg Law Too Far-Reaching & "unConstitutional"
Reply #2 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 2:40pm
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Don_G wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 2:35pm:
As to the merits of the law, there's no doubt it's well intentioned.
I'm sure you know what they say about good intentions.


I'm torn.  I support federalism and CA's right to make stupid laws.  I also support a rolling back of expansive understanding of the commerce clause.  On the other hand, this may actually run afoul of the commerce clause.  I lean toward saying siding with CA on this.   
  
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burnsred
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Re: California Egg Law Too Far-Reaching & "unConstitutional"
Reply #3 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 2:59pm
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ahhell wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 2:40pm:
I'm sure you know what they say about good intentions.


I'm torn.  I support federalism and CA's right to make stupid laws.  I also support a rolling back of expansive understanding of the commerce clause.  On the other hand, this may actually run afoul of the commerce clause.  I lean toward saying siding with CA on this.   
This is actually a good example of why federalism (which means states rights, not a strong federal government) and libertarianism are often two very different things.  Clearly if we went by the words of the constitution, California has a right to pass its "comfortable chicken law."  Unless we believe that the tenth amendment includes an individual right to do whatever you want to chickens.  I doubt there is such a right, or Don_G. would have immigrated to the U.S. already. 

Under a libertarian system, California would never pass such a law because the libertarian voters would throw out any legislator who vote for such foolish government interference in the business of poultry farming.  "States rights" is a dead issue.  The federal government has shown its willingness to use force to gain compliance from states no matter what the constitution says.  Libertarianism is about individual liberty.  "State's rights"  is an oxymoron to a libertarian.


  
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ahhell
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Re: California Egg Law Too Far-Reaching & "unConstitutional"
Reply #4 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 3:27pm
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Now this is an interesting conversation. 

I would for instance support Californian's being able to vote for a full on communist style government so long as they let people leave.   I would not chose to live there though. 

Is that consistent with libertarian principles?

You are right of course, federalism and libertarianism are not the same thing though they can be compatible.

  
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Don_G
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Re: California Egg Law Too Far-Reaching & "unConstitutional"
Reply #5 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 3:38pm
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burnsred wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 2:59pm:
This is actually a good example of why federalism (which means states rights, not a strong federal government) and libertarianism are often two very different things.  Clearly if we went by the words of the constitution, California has a right to pass its "comfortable chicken law."  Unless we believe that the tenth amendment includes an individual right to do whatever you want to chickens.  I doubt there is such a right, or Don_G. would have immigrated to the U.S. already. 

Under a libertarian system, California would never pass such a law because the libertarian voters would throw out any legislator who vote for such foolish government interference in the business of poultry farming.  "States rights" is a dead issue.  The federal government has shown its willingness to use force to gain compliance from states no matter what the constitution says.  Libertarianism is about individual liberty.  "State's rights"  is an oxymoron to a libertarian.




Maybe ahhell is weakwilled enough for you to change his mind?

What you call 'the comfortable chicken law' is in truth some people concern for the humane treatment of animals.

I call that a very human emotion. Sure it can be taken to extremes by groups such as Peta, but in fact the people who support it can only be seen as humans with decent ideals.

If only we didn't have to slaughter animals for food? But we do.

If only the Jews didn't have to slaughter animals in an inhumane way? BUT THEY DON'T!

My main point is, we can wish to take the high road on the treatment of animals, instead of automatically succumbing to that which the 'for maximum profit' industries consider as necessity. We can instead be humans with emotions and at least show we care enough to make humane choices. Even though we have to admit defeat sometimes.

W humans see no delight in watching animals be mistreated or slaughtered by religious fanatics who choose to do it in the cruelest of ways. Kosher becomes truly a bad word!
  
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SkyChief
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Re: California Egg Law Too Far-Reaching & "unConstitutional"
Reply #6 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 4:28pm
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Don_G wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 2:35pm:
The point is to begin with, California has democratically decided to pass the law.

Other states are attempting to use the courts to dictate to California that they can't decide on their own as a state.

Those other states are then willing to INVOKE THE CONSTITUTION in order to make California abide by their wishes??

Is this your new style of libertarianism you've invented for us to  decide on pro or con?

Aw Jeez  -  Nobody is dictating anything. The lawsuit argues that California's requirements violate the U.S. Constitution's interstate commerce clause:

Congress shall have power "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes."  -  not moonbat California voters.

In the US, all State laws must comply with Federal Law.  I expect that the Supreme Court will rule for lifting the California egg ban.

Quote:
As to the merits of the law, there's no doubt it's well intentioned.

Since California's law took effect in 2015, the egg ban has cost consumers nationwide up to $350 million annually because of higher egg prices.  It has also cost thousands of jobs.

How could anyone possibly believe these are good intentions?
  
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burnsred
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Re: California Egg Law Too Far-Reaching & "unConstitutional"
Reply #7 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 5:03pm
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Don_G wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 3:38pm:
Maybe ahhell is weakwilled enough for you to change his mind?

What you call 'the comfortable chicken law' is in truth some people concern for the humane treatment of animals.

I call that a very human emotion. Sure it can be taken to extremes by groups such as Peta, but in fact the people who support it can only be seen as humans with decent ideals.

If only we didn't have to slaughter animals for food? But we do.

If only the Jews didn't have to slaughter animals in an inhumane way? BUT THEY DON'T!

My main point is, we can wish to take the high road on the treatment of animals, instead of automatically succumbing to that which the 'for maximum profit' industries consider as necessity. We can instead be humans with emotions and at least show we care enough to make humane choices. Even though we have to admit defeat sometimes.

W humans see no delight in watching animals be mistreated or slaughtered by religious fanatics who choose to do it in the cruelest of ways. Kosher becomes truly a bad word!
We don't have to slaughter animals for food.  We can be perfectly healthy eating a vegetarian diet.  I'm guessing you said that because you want to rant about "animal rights" but you don't want to give up your round bacon?  Sorry, dude.  Without the right to live, there is no other right. 
  
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Don_G
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Re: California Egg Law Too Far-Reaching & "unConstitutional"
Reply #8 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 6:45pm
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burnsred wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 5:03pm:
We don't have to slaughter animals for food.  We can be perfectly healthy eating a vegetarian diet.  I'm guessing you said that because you want to rant about "animal rights" but you don't want to give up your round bacon?  Sorry, dude.  Without the right to live, there is no other right. 


I have said nothing about animal rights and don't intend to. I've voiced my opinion and I'm rather proud of it.

You really do have the wrong impression on Canadian bacon. If you want to save yourself some embarrassment, check out the fact that it's sold in packages that are identical to the US bacon.

But  burnsred, do we really care? We're adults and we joust with more adult methods than comparing fukking bacon!
http://greenfieldmeat.com/product-bacon-2/
you silly twaht twit!
  
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The Opposition
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Re: California Egg Law Too Far-Reaching & "unConstitutional"
Reply #9 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 8:53pm
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Don_G wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 6:45pm:
I have said nothing about animal rights and don't intend to.


Nothing needs to be said. It needs to be shown.



If no rights are being violated by banning my ownership of a chicken, then no rights are being violated by banning this.

I dare you to skip to 2:45.

Now have another.



In case anyone is wondering why they're all naked, their diet is so low in necessary protein that they eat each other's feathers whenever possible, for the small amount of extractable protein they contain.
  

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