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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) California Egg Law Too Far-Reaching & "unConstitutional" (Read 252 times)
Don_G
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Re: California Egg Law Too Far-Reaching & "unConstitutional"
Reply #20 - Dec 7th, 2017 at 12:27pm
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SkyChief wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 4:28pm:
In the US, all State laws must comply with Federal Law.  I expect that the Supreme Court will rule for lifting the California egg ban.



We can always rely on you to present the statist argument for the federal government.

It seems your rush to disagree with me caused you to run right over the cliff!

Now you can spend your day trying to extract yourself from this one.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: California Egg Law Too Far-Reaching & "unConstitutional"
Reply #21 - Dec 7th, 2017 at 2:07pm
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Don_G wrote on Dec 7th, 2017 at 12:27pm:
We can always rely on you to present the statist argument for the federal government.

You're off your anti-delusion meds again, I see.
  
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Don_G
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Re: California Egg Law Too Far-Reaching & "unConstitutional"
Reply #22 - Dec 7th, 2017 at 7:10pm
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SkyChief wrote on Dec 7th, 2017 at 2:07pm:
You're off your anti-delusion meds again, I see.


You walked right into the dog shit that time Chief. Don't try to convince me that you didn't take the statist positioin, convince the covey that's always on this board reading.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: California Egg Law Too Far-Reaching & "unConstitutional"
Reply #23 - Dec 7th, 2017 at 7:22pm
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Don_G wrote on Dec 7th, 2017 at 7:10pm:
You walked right into the dog shit that time Chief. Don't try to convince me that you didn't take the statist positioin, convince the covey that's always on this board reading.

You're delusional. I didn't take any "position" - I merely stated the grounds for the lawsuit, and a fact about compliance with Federal laws in the US.

SkyChief wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 4:28pm:
...Nobody is dictating anything. The lawsuit argues that California's requirements violate the U.S. Constitution's interstate commerce clause....

In the US, all State laws must comply with Federal Law.  I expect that the Supreme Court will rule for lifting the California egg ban.

Now don't you feel foolish?
  
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Jeff
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Re: California Egg Law Too Far-Reaching & "unConstitutional"
Reply #24 - Dec 7th, 2017 at 7:44pm
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Don_G wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 2:35pm:
The point is to begin with, California has democratically decided to pass the law.

No matter how they passed it, they aren't allowed to pass laws that interfere with free trade between people in different states.
Anyone in California who wants to buy chickens that never stretched their legs, ever, is allowed to buy them from someone in Oregon (or anywhere else) who has them to sell.
The national government is tasked with preserving that right of free trade across state lines.
It's one of those 'individual rights are superior to state power' things we have in America. No matter if the illegal state power was granted "democratically", which is unlikely to have been the case in Kalifornia.
  
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Don_G
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Re: California Egg Law Too Far-Reaching & "unConstitutional"
Reply #25 - Dec 7th, 2017 at 7:52pm
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Jeff wrote on Dec 7th, 2017 at 7:44pm:
No matter how they passed it, they aren't allowed to pass laws that interfere with free trade between people in different states.
Anyone in California who wants to buy chickens that never stretched their legs, ever, is allowed to buy them from someone in Oregon (or anywhere else) who has them to sell.
The national government is tasked with preserving that right of free trade across state lines.
It's one of those 'individual rights are superior to state power' things we have in America. No matter if the illegal state power was granted "democratically", which is unlikely to have been the case in Kalifornia.

The point is asshole, that it will be decided in the courts and California at least has a case. I've no interest in whether they can win or not but there's little doubt nobody can say for sure.

But the chief turns thumbs down on a clear libertarian principle and now it sounds like you do too. It's no big deal that you do because you don't claim to be a libertarian. But it's completely laughable that the chief didn't consider the implications of taking the side of the feds. Fukking complete smackdown. Save some credibility and let it go wanker.

Or entertain me further on it!
  
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Jeff
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Re: California Egg Law Too Far-Reaching & "unConstitutional"
Reply #26 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 6:27am
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Don_G wrote on Dec 7th, 2017 at 7:52pm:
The point is asshole, that it will be decided in the courts and California at least has a case.
No they don't. No matter how Kalifornia passes a law, that law is not permitted to interfere with free trade across state lines. That's what the commerce clause of the U.S. Constitution is there to prevent.
  
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burnsred
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Re: California Egg Law Too Far-Reaching & "unConstitutional"
Reply #27 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 11:12am
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Jeff wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 6:27am:
No they don't. No matter how Kalifornia passes a law, that law is not permitted to interfere with free trade across state lines. That's what the commerce clause of the U.S. Constitution is there to prevent.
When I was considering law school, one of the things I read was that if a person grows corn in his backyard strictly for his own consumption, the USSC has ruled that it can be regulated by the federal government under the interstate commerce clause because - however tenuously - it affects trade across state lines.  Because eating his own corn might prevent him from buying corn which might have been shipped across state lines. 

Clearly not the intent of the framers, but apparently, that's not the point.  The point is for the federal government to be able to do whatever it feels like at the moment without considering what the states want. 

To a libertarians (as opposed to a constitutionalist) all that nonsense is irrelevant.  There is no such thing as "states rights" only individual rights and state powers.  The California law unacceptably interferes with the rights of individuals to raise chickens as they see fit.
 
  
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Don_G
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Re: California Egg Law Too Far-Reaching & "unConstitutional"
Reply #28 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 11:46am
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burnsred wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 11:12am:
To a libertarians (as opposed to a constitutionalist) all that nonsense is irrelevant.  There is no such thing as "states rights" only individual rights and state powers.  The California law unacceptably interferes with the rights of individuals to raise chickens as they see fit.
 


That's a pretty imaginative spin on it burnsred. For a proposed libertarian to say it, the way I interpret it is his hard-on for California. That will be the Chief's reason.

For both of you, you've found a way to square supporting the federal government.

I think you've come to the wrong place to learn the basics of the libertarian philosophy. It's very different here than talking to more sophisticated libertarians who are very careful to be as consistent as the dogma allows.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: California Egg Law Too Far-Reaching & "unConstitutional"
Reply #29 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 12:59pm
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Don_G wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 11:46am:
I think you've come to the wrong place to learn the basics of the libertarian philosophy. It's very different here than talking to more sophisticated libertarians who are very careful to be as consistent as the dogma allows.

I think he's done wery well.  Libertarians don't really need to follow a rigid dogma.  We just need to agree on the core principles of self-ownership and limited government.

Some libertarians are anti-borders and pro-immigration - some aren't.  Some libertarians are conservative constitutionalist - some aren't.   We libertarians are a very diverse political party.  We don't march in lockstep like the two wings of the UniParty.

"Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something." - Plato
  
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