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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The "Deep State" "Mid-Level Government" "The Swamp" (Read 2656 times)
Don_G
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Re: The "Deep State" "Mid-Level Government" "The Swamp"
Reply #100 - Jan 1st, 2018 at 2:39pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 1st, 2018 at 1:50pm:
It's the kiss of death Tom!
Don-G likes what you say....


Tom's been consistent and has nothing to worry about. I suspect he will continue that way and ignore your attempts to spam every conversation.

It's got to be out of fear that your dogma is going to be torn down and that's because your dogma can't stand against ration questioning. Now you're on a roll to destroy all the conversations in just the same way you have tried to do it on viable or inviable business and minimum wages.


  
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Jeff
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Re: The "Deep State" "Mid-Level Government" "The Swamp"
Reply #101 - Jan 1st, 2018 at 3:05pm
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Tom's been consistent and has nothing to worry about. I suspect he will continue that way and ignore your attempts to spam every conversation.

It's got to be out of fear that your dogma is going to be torn down and that's because your dogma can't stand against ration questioning. Now you're on a roll to destroy all the conversations in just the same way you have tried to do it on viable or inviable business and minimum wages.


Just tell me you won't do my yard work for $5.00/hour, and I'll find someone who will...
  
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Don_G
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Re: The "Deep State" "Mid-Level Government" "The Swamp"
Reply #102 - Jan 1st, 2018 at 3:13pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 1st, 2018 at 3:05pm:
Just tell me you won't do my yard work for $5.00/hour, and I'll find someone who will...


OH, I'm sure you will! When you find an illegal alien then your yard upkeeping home business will prove to be viable.

If you can only afford to pay $2 an hour then your home business will likely not be viable anymore and you'll have to scab on yourself for 2 bucks an hour. Or force you wife and kids to do it for free.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The "Deep State" "Mid-Level Government" "The Swamp"
Reply #103 - Jan 1st, 2018 at 5:07pm
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OH, I'm sure you will! When you find an illegal alien then your yard upkeeping home business will prove to be viable.
I was thinking that there are some young men in the area who might be thinking they'd like to have a car, or might want to go to college.

Knowing what I do, I would prefer to hire someone from Voltar because in general these days they have a better work ethic.

If you would have agreed, and done a good efficient job of it, I would have asked you to come back and do it again the same way for $10.00/hour...

Had you got to know me and I you, I might have proposed that you work for me to buy your car, and I would help you with college, if you needed help.

Isn't that a great idea?

But you blew it.
  
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Don_G
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Re: The "Deep State" "Mid-Level Government" "The Swamp"
Reply #104 - Jan 1st, 2018 at 7:18pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 1st, 2018 at 5:07pm:
I was thinking that there are some young men in the area who might be thinking they'd like to have a car, or might want to go to college.

Knowing what I do, I would prefer to hire someone from Voltar because in general these days they have a better work ethic.

If you would have agreed, and done a good efficient job of it, I would have asked you to come back and do it again the same way for $10.00/hour...

Had you got to know me and I you, I might have proposed that you work for me to buy your car, and I would help you with college, if you needed help.

Isn't that a great idea?

But you blew it.


Had you paid $10 an hour to begin with you would have got my effort that was the equivalent to $10 an hour. For me personally, it would amount to about 1/4 of my best effort. Actually, I wouldn't even entertain doing it for anything less than about $40 an hour. And that would have to be a cash deal.

So I guess I haven't blown anything. Some American lowlife might be interested though!

I'm only wondering why you tried to get it done for 5 bucks an hour? Because you can in your country? Because people are so down on their luck that they go cheap.

Well congratulations to you mr. small business yardwork owner! I knew all along it wasn't because that's all your business could afford to pay.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: The "Deep State" "Mid-Level Government" "The Swamp"
Reply #105 - Jan 2nd, 2018 at 10:13pm
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Had you paid $10 an hour to begin with you would have got my effort that was the equivalent to $10 an hour. For me personally, it would amount to about 1/4 of my best effort. Actually, I wouldn't even entertain doing it for anything less than about $40 an hour. And that would have to be a cash deal.



That post reveals to me that you have little real world experiences with actual workplace behavior.  Workers don't adjust their level of effort based on the pay.  Individuals work harder or less hard than their peers based on each of their predispositions to work.   Hard workers work hard at any job.  If they have an employer who recognizes such hard work, they move up to better paying positions of more responsibility.   Not-so-hard workers stay at entry level and wonder whose ass those who get promoted had to kiss.

If the government "gives" them all fifteen dollars an hour when they were making seven and a quarter by raising the legal minimum wage, they are not going to work twice as hard.  They'd have even less incentive to work since they got a raise for doing nothing more than the barely acceptable work they were getting by on. 

Many would say, "work harder?  I'm working too hard now, hell!"  Meanwhile, the hard working will continue to work harder than the minimum wage fairly compensates, hoping for a promotion or looking for higher paid work elsewhere during off hours. 

Those who refuse to work harder due to a mandated raise will have a point in that such raises are always inflationary.  So their after raise purchasing power will only be higher for a short time.  It is those who worked their way up to a fifteen dollar an hour job who will pay the price for the government "generosity."
 


  

"Taxes are morally justified theft" - Jeff
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Don_G
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Re: The "Deep State" "Mid-Level Government" "The Swamp"
Reply #106 - Jan 3rd, 2018 at 1:28pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 10:13pm:
That post reveals to me that you have little real world experiences with actual workplace behavior.  Workers don't adjust their level of effort based on the pay.  Individuals work harder or less hard than their peers based on each of their predispositions to work.   Hard workers work hard at any job.  If they have an employer who recognizes such hard work, they move up to better paying positions of more responsibility.   Not-so-hard workers stay at entry level and wonder whose ass those who get promoted had to kiss.


Some of that is true but you're missing a key point. That is, those workers who will apply for the low pay jobs will come ready made as less productive workers. The low pay will fail to attract others.

I'm not making that statement for MacD workers who in many cases are younger people who don't come premade because of lack of experience. I'm talking about adults.

So I agree with your analysis in part but I see my analysis as a larger factor. The employer who offers the higher wage will get the cream of the crop. It's also a part of the free market system!

Quote:
If the government "gives" them all fifteen dollars an hour when they were making seven and a quarter by raising the legal minimum wage, they are not going to work twice as hard.  They'd have even less incentive to work since they got a raise for doing nothing more than the barely acceptable work they were getting by on. 


You're missing the facts of the matter. No, they won't work twice as hard. And the minimum wage isn't intended to cause workers to work twice as hard. It's intent is obvious of course. And it raises all boats! Do you strive to lower all boats and be more like Asian countries' workplaces and worker's wages?

Quote:
Many would say, "work harder?  I'm working too hard now, hell!"  Meanwhile, the hard working will continue to work harder than the minimum wage fairly compensates, hoping for a promotion or looking for higher paid work elsewhere during off hours. 


Again, the purpose is not to cause workers to work harder. However, in the case of MacD's, putting a badge on a worker that says 'shift boss' will likely improve performance of that worker. Paying an additional 5 cents an hour will pay dividends worth dollars an hour. 

Quote:
Those who refuse to work harder due to a mandated raise will have a point in that such raises are always inflationary.  So their after raise purchasing power will only be higher for a short time.  It is those who worked their way up to a fifteen dollar an hour job who will pay the price for the government "generosity."


You don't have to explain how it works for me, I'm fully aware of it. And the trouble is, your explanation only goes half way. As cost of living rises, workers strive for and demand higher wages. I think we're both beyond arguing whether it's the chicken or the egg thing.

Unlike you claiming you've taught me something, I don't make that claim. I'm sure you are fully aware of the basics but it's just a matter of not wanting to tell the whole story.

If there's a part of the story I haven't told then please do remind me.
 



  
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Don_G
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Re: The "Deep State" "Mid-Level Government" "The Swamp"
Reply #107 - Jan 3rd, 2018 at 1:37pm
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And for others, the sad truth is that employers are intent on lowering all boats now. Not because they think it's the best outcome but because of necessity in many cases. The competition from overseas can't be matched by US business or US workers.

That doesn't mean there should be a rush to the bottom based more on greed than necessity on the part of employers.

Burnsred misses the point completely and he demonstrates that by insisting that workers won't and don't work twice as hard for $15 an hour as they work for $7.50 an hour.

He's an example of extreme rightist ideology being wrong and leading to eventual failure of the free market system. This is why I can say that burnsred can't make himself into a libertarian. His extreme right roots are always going to be too strong.

And in fairness and fwiw, an extreme leftist can't be a libertarian either. Libertarians are going to have to recruited from those more middle of the road. Which explains why an ideology that doesn't include leftists is not going to work for the LP.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The "Deep State" "Mid-Level Government" "The Swamp"
Reply #108 - Jan 3rd, 2018 at 5:53pm
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Libertarians are going to have to recruited from those more middle of the road.
That's what I've been saying, thanks.

Pretty much everybody other than Communists and Anarchists fits in with libertarian ideas pretty well.
  
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Don_G
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Re: The "Deep State" "Mid-Level Government" "The Swamp"
Reply #109 - Jan 3rd, 2018 at 5:58pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 3rd, 2018 at 5:53pm:
That's what I've been saying, thanks.

Pretty much everybody other than Communists and Anarchists fits in with libertarian ideas pretty well.


And fascists because they're too extremist too.
  
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