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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) healthcare rationing. (Read 489 times)
Don_G
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Re: healthcare rationing.
Reply #20 - Dec 15th, 2017 at 7:39pm
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SkyChief wrote on Dec 15th, 2017 at 6:30pm:
Freedom is inversely proportional to the size of government - the bigger government becomes, the less freedom we have.  This is always the case.

Because, what does government do when they are in session?  They make Laws, of course.  Laws which take away our freedoms.

A long time ago, they at least pretended to follow constitutional guidelines, but in October 2001 they stopped pretending.

The PATRIOT Act was passed. It was in direct violation of the 4th Amendment.  Supreme Court pretended not to notice.  I'm glad it happened, though.   It was on that day I realized that government was no longer acting on behalf of the People. So I became a Libertarian. 


I'm beginning to think you may have a point. What laws take away your freedom?

You are saying you want the freedom to act unlawfully. What laws do you wish to ignore or break?

The laws that protect against victimless crimes? Which specific laws? You like to make libertarian noises but you never stand behind your claims.

Maybe now would be a good time to start, rather than spamming with your cartoons when your feet are held to the fire.

Bigger government doesn't lead to less freedom. Good government leads to more real freedoms. Something you don't identify with because you despise the idea that government can be good government.


  
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SkyChief
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Re: healthcare rationing.
Reply #21 - Dec 16th, 2017 at 1:52am
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Don_G wrote on Dec 15th, 2017 at 7:39pm:
Bigger government doesn't lead to less freedom.



The US is a perfect example of unchecked government expansion and diminishing liberties. 

Big Government always leads to reckless spending, abuses of power, Military intervention, taxes and debt.

Hong Kong, Switzerland, and New Zealand have very limited governments and a small Military - it's no coincidence that they are also the freest countries.

(Hong Kong doesnt have any military)
  
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The Opposition
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Re: healthcare rationing.
Reply #22 - Dec 16th, 2017 at 4:50am
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SkyChief wrote on Dec 15th, 2017 at 6:30pm:
Freedom is inversely proportional to the size of government - the bigger government becomes, the less freedom we have.  This is always the case.


Then logic dictates that to maximise freedom, we should have zero government.
  

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Billie
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Re: healthcare rationing.
Reply #23 - Dec 16th, 2017 at 8:26am
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 16th, 2017 at 4:50am:
Then logic dictates that to maximise freedom, we should have zero government.
Yes, so what?

In the real world, having no government also maximizes the freedom of all those people who prefer the law of the jungle over the NAP.

Let's talk about practical ways to maximize liberty and protect rights too.

Here's a non-healthcare 'problem' that a government has pursued to the same end, high cost and limited availability.

http://reason.com/blog/2017/12/15/los-angeles-wants-to-make-housing-afford?utm_m...
  
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SkyChief
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Re: healthcare rationing.
Reply #24 - Dec 16th, 2017 at 11:28am
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 16th, 2017 at 4:50am:
Then logic dictates that to maximise freedom, we should have zero government.

Yes. The freest people in history were those who had no government 12 thousand years ago.  But they were barbarians too, so their quality of life probably wasn't very good even with all their freedom.

I don't know of anyone who thinks we should have zero government,  but I've heard they exist. Most sensible libertarians just want to down-size government - to reduce it's scope and powers.
  
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SnarkySack
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Re: healthcare rationing.
Reply #25 - Dec 16th, 2017 at 11:52am
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We would be more free under an actual libertarian government, because that government would exist solely to protect our freedom.  However, no libertarian government has ever existed.

If there ever were true anarchy, I would think there would be more freedom at first, but then gangs would quickly form to perform the three major functions of non-libertarian government which are killing, stealing and enslaving.

That is the difference between anarchy and libertarianism.
  

I used to be burnsred . . .
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Don_G
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Re: healthcare rationing.
Reply #26 - Dec 16th, 2017 at 12:15pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Dec 16th, 2017 at 11:52am:
We would be more free under an actual libertarian government, because that government would exist solely to protect our freedom.  However, no libertarian government has ever existed.

If there ever were true anarchy, I would think there would be more freedom at first, but then gangs would quickly form to perform the three major functions of non-libertarian government which are killing, stealing and enslaving.

That is the difference between anarchy and libertarianism.


Just in case anybody is still confused, good government is the answer and it isn't dependent on keeping it small. In fact bigger government is compatible with good government.

Unfortunately, Americans can't think of good government because that has been disqualified by those who want to keep the status quo.

And then ordinatry people such as thos on this forum keep wanting libertarian government at the same time as they realize that it has never existed and can never be.

What's the solution burnsred?
  
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Billie
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Re: healthcare rationing.
Reply #27 - Dec 16th, 2017 at 1:16pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Dec 16th, 2017 at 11:52am:
We would be more free under an actual libertarian government, because that government would exist solely to protect our freedom.  However, no libertarian government has ever existed.


What powers would "an actual libertarian government have"?

You say it would protect our freedom.

How would it do that? If a group of local people decided to make me their slave, what would a libertarian government do to restore my freedom? Would they have the authority to use force against all sorts of aggression?

You frequently speak of a "libertarian government", yet I have no idea what you imagine it would be... Would it be governed by law? How would it be funded? Who would be "the government"? How would they be chosen?
  
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Don_G
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Re: healthcare rationing.
Reply #28 - Dec 16th, 2017 at 1:38pm
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Billie wrote on Dec 16th, 2017 at 1:16pm:
What powers would "an actual libertarian government have"?

You say it would protect our freedom.

How would it do that? If a group of local people decided to make me their slave, what would a libertarian government do to restore my freedom? Would they have the authority to use force against all sorts of aggression?

You frequently speak of a "libertarian government", yet I have no idea what you imagine it would be... Would it be governed by law? How would it be funded? Who would be "the government"? How would they be chosen?


Great questions Jeff. I hope he doesn't just ignore them because he knows they're my questions he thinks he doesn't have to answer.

You're starting to  make some big changes from the way you were 6 months ago. You're certainly not pretending to be one of the pseudo-libertarians anymore!
  
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Billie
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Re: healthcare rationing.
Reply #29 - Dec 16th, 2017 at 5:01pm
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Don_G wrote on Dec 16th, 2017 at 1:38pm:
Great questions Jeff. I hope he doesn't just ignore them because he knows they're my questions he thinks he doesn't have to answer.


You claim my questions as your own?

Thief. Dolt. Ask kaz your own questions.
  
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