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DontTread44
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What happened in 2008 with Mary Ruwart's "child porn" controversy?
Dec 17th, 2017 at 1:04am
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She was widely criticized for defending children who consent to sexual acts, saying they have the liberty to do so, "though we may not personally agree with it".

I understand Shane Cory, the Party director at the time responded to this with a press statement with the headline: "Libertarians call for increased communication to combat child pornography". I'm extremely curious as to what was inside this statement. Did the party actually call for stricter enforcement of existing child pornography laws? Did the LP go full statist just to better their PR?
  
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Billie
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Re: What happened in 2008 with Mary Ruwart's "child porn" controversy?
Reply #1 - Dec 17th, 2017 at 9:08am
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DontTread44 wrote on Dec 17th, 2017 at 1:04am:
She was widely criticized for defending children who consent to sexual acts, saying they have the liberty to do so, "though we may not personally agree with it".

I understand Shane Cory, the Party director at the time responded to this with a press statement with the headline: "Libertarians call for increased communication to combat child pornography". I'm extremely curious as to what was inside this statement. Did the party actually call for stricter enforcement of existing child pornography laws? Did the LP go full statist just to better their PR?
For as long as I've been aware of libertarians, there have been some who confused liberty with license, and some of those have always been convinced that a willing child is the same as a willing adult, 'because children have rights too'.

I can't see protecting children from exploitation, whether its economic or sexual, as going "full statist.

Do children have "liberty" to contract themselves out as mine workers? Or to buy expensive cars with loans they contract to pay?
  
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Don_G
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Re: What happened in 2008 with Mary Ruwart's "child porn" controversy?
Reply #2 - Dec 17th, 2017 at 1:06pm
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Billie wrote on Dec 17th, 2017 at 9:08am:
I can't see protecting children from exploitation, whether its economic or sexual, as going "full statist.




Another compromise of libertarian ideals, but explained away with a bit of double talking on 'liberty' and 'license' being the justification this time.

It just has to be done and in this case needs to be done, so good for you Jeff.

9/10 of the bullshit garbage will eventually have to compromised away. There's a reason in each situation why it's not mainstream when it's pseudo-libertarian.

People like you continue to face reality and bring down another and another facade of it's unreality.

This is the second one today. Chief brought one down earlier on OSHA.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: What happened in 2008 with Mary Ruwart's "child porn" controversy?
Reply #3 - Dec 17th, 2017 at 7:38pm
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Billie wrote on Dec 17th, 2017 at 9:08am:
I can't see protecting children from exploitation, whether its economic or sexual, as going "full statist."


This is because you think with your conscience instead of your brain.

Do you think mentally retarded people with, say, 40IQ should be protected from "exploitation" in the same way?
  

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Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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Billie
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Re: What happened in 2008 with Mary Ruwart's "child porn" controversy?
Reply #4 - Dec 18th, 2017 at 7:07am
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 17th, 2017 at 7:38pm:
This is because you think with your conscience instead of your brain.

Do you think mentally retarded people with, say, 40IQ should be protected from "exploitation" in the same way?
Quite a few people need protection from exploitation, and our laws offer that protection where friends and family might not be able to...

My 93 year old Mother with rather severe Alzheimer's for instance, needs help managing her money so that some unscrupulous con-man can't talk her into speculating all of it on junk bonds or valuable swamp front property.

There is an assumption in the law that adults are competent to make decisions and sign contracts and decide if having sex with someone is a good idea that they actually want to go through with, and that children do not yet possess that competence.

As with all things like this, some children are more competent than others, and some adults are more competent than others.
  
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Don_G
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Re: What happened in 2008 with Mary Ruwart's "child porn" controversy?
Reply #5 - Dec 18th, 2017 at 11:37am
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Billie wrote on Dec 18th, 2017 at 7:07am:
Quite a few people need protection from exploitation, and our laws offer that protection where friends and family might not be able to...

My 93 year old Mother with rather severe Alzheimer's for instance, needs help managing her money so that some unscrupulous con-man can't talk her into speculating all of it on junk bonds or valuable swamp front property.

There is an assumption in the law that adults are competent to make decisions and sign contracts and decide if having sex with someone is a good idea that they actually want to go through with, and that children do not yet possess that competence.

As with all things like this, some children are more competent than others, and some adults are more competent than others.


In Canada we are in favour of laws being enacted by GOVERNMENT that protect old people. We think it's a good thing to do. You should complain to a big corporation to help you fix the problem. They have a direct line to your government. And you can pretend to not be asking government to be responsible.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: What happened in 2008 with Mary Ruwart's "child porn" controversy?
Reply #6 - Dec 18th, 2017 at 1:32pm
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Billie wrote on Dec 18th, 2017 at 7:07am:
Quite a few people need protection from exploitation, and our laws offer that protection where friends and family might not be able to...

My 93 year old Mother with rather severe Alzheimer's for instance, needs help managing her money so that some unscrupulous con-man can't talk her into speculating all of it on junk bonds or valuable swamp front property.


It's a terrible situation. I've dealt with old people who decay like this. My particular brand of egomania makes this particularly unsettling to me. My intellect is my identity. When I see someone lose that, I am literally seeing them descend into the worst Hell imaginable. They are having their soul ripped to shreds, slowly, piece by piece, and their body remains.

But the truth is that if they agree to the supervision, it's fine. If not, it's a violation of rights.

People scam other people all the time, and they get to do it because they're cleverer. I see this happen to normal people, and you're not getting is that being a fool (for whatever reason) doesn't mean other people can tell you what agreements you can and can't make.

Whose judgement is "good enough" and whose isn't... is not relative. If we apply your standard, you might qualify as needing protection on a planet full of people like me, and that would be wrong, because even if you make bad decisions, you have the right to make them.

The only consistent rule is that people have a right to make their own choices.

Yes, I know what this leads to. It's awful. Scamming the elderly and children being mentally ruined because they wanted a candy bar and agreed to suck dick for it.

Do you have a better alternative? Because if you can take away the right to make decisions from the mentally retarded because their IQ is 60 points below yours, then I can take away the right to make decisions from normal people because their IQ is 60 points below mine.

I'm admitting I have no good alternative. I'm admitting I shouldn't be able to intercede between idiots and their lottery tickets, even if they're being scammed.
  

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Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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Billie
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Re: What happened in 2008 with Mary Ruwart's "child porn" controversy?
Reply #7 - Dec 18th, 2017 at 1:54pm
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 18th, 2017 at 1:32pm:
I see this happen to normal people, and you're not getting is that being a fool (for whatever reason) doesn't mean other people can tell you what agreements you can and can't make.

But being a child does mean that. So does being severely mentally impaired for whatever reason.

I know you disagree. You think children are competent to make decisions about agreeing to consensual sex.

  
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The Opposition
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Re: What happened in 2008 with Mary Ruwart's "child porn" controversy?
Reply #8 - Dec 18th, 2017 at 2:00pm
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Billie wrote on Dec 18th, 2017 at 1:54pm:
But being a child does mean that. So does being severely mentally impaired for whatever reason.

I know you disagree. You think children are competent to make decisions about agreeing to consensual sex.


You have no idea what I think because you don't read. I do not have a good answer.

Normal people are severely mentally impaired, from where I'm sitting, and I don't believe I should be able to come between them and their lottery tickets, even if they are spending their grocery or rent money, thinking they'll win it back.
  

Making Sci-Fi great again since 2063.

Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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Billie
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Re: What happened in 2008 with Mary Ruwart's "child porn" controversy?
Reply #9 - Dec 18th, 2017 at 2:15pm
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 18th, 2017 at 2:00pm:
You have no idea what I think because you don't read. I do not have a good answer.

Normal people are severely mentally impaired, from where I'm sitting, and I don't believe I should be able to come between them and their lottery tickets, even if they are spending their grocery or rent money, thinking they'll win it back.
So you don't agree that children should be prohibited from buying lottery tickets?
  
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