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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) What happened in 2008 with Mary Ruwart's "child porn" controversy? (Read 495 times)
The Opposition
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Re: What happened in 2008 with Mary Ruwart's "child porn" controversy?
Reply #10 - Dec 18th, 2017 at 10:14pm
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Jeff wrote on Dec 18th, 2017 at 2:15pm:
So you don't agree that children should be prohibited from buying lottery tickets?


Do you? What if they worked hard mowing somebody's lawn to earn that money and a lottery ticket is what they really want?

Face facts: Anything that lets you step between somebody and their dumb choices lets intellectual elitists (like I used to be) step between you and your dumb choices.

I would rip that bottle of oxycodone out of your hand so hard your head would spin.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: What happened in 2008 with Mary Ruwart's "child porn" controversy?
Reply #11 - Dec 19th, 2017 at 7:28am
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 18th, 2017 at 10:14pm:
Do you? What if they worked hard mowing somebody's lawn to earn that money and a lottery ticket is what they really want?

The assumption is that adults are capable of understanding just how bad the odds are of winning the lottery, and that children aren't.
Informed consent is the standard, and the assumption is that children aren't capable of giving it because they haven't yet gained the experience and knowledge and powers of reasoning to enable them to make wise decisions.

Certainly some adults haven't either, but the option to letting adults do stupid things is to keep them perpetual children with the government acting as the "adult" to protect them. This is bad in itself because it denies adults liberty, and it's bad in practice because a society of protected children is likely to be as productive and self supporting and innovative as a class of elementary school children.

If a child really wants to spend their own earned money on a lottery ticket, a good parent would buy it for them, using the child's money of course, and also explaining the odds.
  
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Don_G
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Re: What happened in 2008 with Mary Ruwart's "child porn" controversy?
Reply #12 - Dec 19th, 2017 at 12:21pm
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Jeff wrote on Dec 19th, 2017 at 7:28am:
The assumption is that adults are capable of understanding just how bad the odds are of winning the lottery, and that children aren't.
Informed consent is the standard, and the assumption is that children aren't capable of giving it because they haven't yet gained the experience and knowledge and powers of reasoning to enable them to make wise decisions.

Certainly some adults haven't either, but the option to letting adults do stupid things is to keep them perpetual children with the government acting as the "adult" to protect them. This is bad in itself because it denies adults liberty, and it's bad in practice because a society of protected children is likely to be as productive and self supporting and innovative as a class of elementary school children.

If a child really wants to spend their own earned money on a lottery ticket, a good parent would buy it for them, using the child's money of course, and also explaining the odds.


A christian tries to tell others about being an adult! I know lots of children of no more than 6 who would be able to set you straight on your sky fairy imaginings.

But then you get the more difficult concept of lottery tickets correct? Go figure?
  
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The Opposition
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Re: What happened in 2008 with Mary Ruwart's "child porn" controversy?
Reply #13 - Dec 19th, 2017 at 2:36pm
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Jeff wrote on Dec 19th, 2017 at 7:28am:
The assumption is that adults are capable of understanding just how bad the odds are of winning the lottery, and that children aren't.
Informed consent is the standard, and the assumption is that children aren't capable of giving it because they haven't yet gained the experience and knowledge and powers of reasoning to enable them to make wise decisions.

Certainly some adults haven't either, but the option to letting adults do stupid things is to keep them perpetual children with the government acting as the "adult" to protect them. This is bad in itself because it denies adults liberty, and it's bad in practice because a society of protected children is likely to be as productive and self supporting and innovative as a class of elementary school children.


You just explained how government protecting people from themselves is bad. Nothing you said is inapplicable to children.

Jeff wrote on Dec 19th, 2017 at 7:28am:
If a child really wants to spend their own earned money on a lottery ticket, a good parent would buy it for them, using the child's money of course, and also explaining the odds.


They'll also take the money when the child wins and use it for their own selfish ends. They're people. They're greedy.

This happens whenever you give one person power over another. They don't have to be wearing a crown or a sash that says government.

Or did you think the word government (and not the power over other people) was the bad apple here?

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A christian tries to tell others about being an adult! I know lots of children of no more than 6 who would be able to set you straight on your sky fairy imaginings.


The thing that makes this ring true (even though it's nasty) is that if he believed Star Trek was real, instead of the Bible, he'd be certifiable. Someone would put him in a white coat and we'd never see him again.

I'm all for letting people believe in nonsense as long as equal nonsense is also allowed. Too many harmless crazies are locked up for me not to give this a +1.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: What happened in 2008 with Mary Ruwart's "child porn" controversy?
Reply #14 - Dec 19th, 2017 at 5:26pm
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 19th, 2017 at 2:36pm:
You just explained how government protecting people from themselves is bad. Nothing you said is inapplicable to children.


Children are presumed to lack experience and knowledge of the world, no matter how crappity smacking smart they are on IQ tests.
  
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DontTread44
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Re: What happened in 2008 with Mary Ruwart's "child porn" controversy?
Reply #15 - Jan 6th, 2018 at 4:40pm
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I didn't ask you all to debate whether or not child porn should be legal. I asked what the Libertarian Party did publicly in response to the controversy. I know they made a statement, but I can't find it.

I want to know whether the Party disavowed it and said child porn should be illegal. It's also my understanding someone within the LNC resigned as a result of this conflict.

Does anyone know the full story? That's what I'm asking.
  
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Jeff
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Re: What happened in 2008 with Mary Ruwart's "child porn" controversy?
Reply #16 - Jan 6th, 2018 at 4:55pm
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DontTread44 wrote on Jan 6th, 2018 at 4:40pm:
I didn't ask you all to debate whether or not child porn should be legal. I asked what the Libertarian Party did publicly in response to the controversy.
It's pretty obvious nobody here cares, and you are too stupid to find out on your own.

I'd say you're out of luck buddy.
  
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Don_G
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Re: What happened in 2008 with Mary Ruwart's "child porn" controversy?
Reply #17 - Jan 6th, 2018 at 6:54pm
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DontTread44 wrote on Jan 6th, 2018 at 4:40pm:
I didn't ask you all to debate whether or not child porn should be legal. I asked what the Libertarian Party did publicly in response to the controversy. I know they made a statement, but I can't find it.

I want to know whether the Party disavowed it and said child porn should be illegal. It's also my understanding someone within the LNC resigned as a result of this conflict.

Does anyone know the full story? That's what I'm asking.


The LP has no hard and fast well thought out positions.

Their agenda that's been set in ignorance leads to compromises on nearly any issue. Child pornographic will hve to be accepted by the LP because of their agenda. Think it out and find your own answers, you won't find any on this board.
  
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Jeff
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Re: What happened in 2008 with Mary Ruwart's "child porn" controversy?
Reply #18 - Jan 7th, 2018 at 7:41am
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The LP has no hard and fast well thought out positions.


That's because operating from a theory of general Liberty and the protection of Individual Rights automatically creates "positions" on virtually every issue.

That doesn't mean libertarians can't be wrong, it just means they leave almost all decisions on "positions" up to individuals rather than having a Party Line dictated from above.

Taking the view that children are every bit as free and have all the same rights as adults is a position some people have adopted, and not just libertarians, but it is wrong. Children lack the knowledge and experience necessary to make good decisions about many things. That's why we try to protect them while they gain knowledge and experience.
  
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Don_G
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Re: What happened in 2008 with Mary Ruwart's "child porn" controversy?
Reply #19 - Jan 7th, 2018 at 1:06pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 7th, 2018 at 7:41am:
That's because operating from a theory of general Liberty and the protection of Individual Rights automatically creates "positions" on virtually every issue.

That doesn't mean libertarians can't be wrong, it just means they leave almost all decisions on "positions" up to individuals rather than having a Party Line dictated from above.


It's libertarians being 'right' occasionally that I'm interested in. Varying opinions may sometimes be interesting but they'll never gain any support because of the lack of any cohesion.

Can't at least two libertarians on this board come to agreement on the political philosophy and then debate it from a united POV? It appers not so far. For instance, can libertarians agree to disenfranchize all people with an IQ lower than 90? Or is that just too batshit crazy to even begin to contemplate.

I think the fact is Jeff, if libertarians came together on that ideal, they would quickly destroy the LP by being just too batshit crazy. However, Hitlers have risen to power and so has Trump!

Quote:
Taking the view that children are every bit as free and have all the same rights as adults is a position some people have adopted, and not just libertarians, but it is wrong. Children lack the knowledge and experience necessary to make good decisions about many things. That's why we try to protect them while they gain knowledge and experience.


I didn't disagree with that. But the danger is in allowing a libertarian to interpret that. They'll mess it up for sure in order to promote the agenda. The chief does it all the time.
  
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